Sunday, October 26, 2008

Here's an idea:Quit worrying about the points format and get back to work

HAMPTON, Ga. - So maybe you've heard that Jack Roush proposed his own variation on how to Jimmie-proof the Chase for the Sprint Cup after Sunday's Pep Boys Auto 500 at Atlanta Motor Speedway.

After one of his drivers, Carl Edwards, won the race, Roush said he thinks NASCAR should allow each driver in the Chase to throw out his worst finish in the 10-race playoff and count only the other nine. The thinking would be that would not penalize a driver too much for having one bad race.

OK, first, if a driver can go 10 straight races without having a finish worse than about 10th, why shouldn't he get credit for doing that over a guy who doesn't? Why shouldn't everything count?

But even if you don't buy that, this is yet another example of somebody not understanding that no system you can think of is going to help you beat a team that's beating you as bad as Johnson and his team are beating his Chase rivals.

Let's do the math.

If we had a one-race forgiveness system, Johnson would now throw out a 143-point race.

Edwards would throw out his 64-point race at Charlotte. Greg Biffle would lose 96 points. Jeff Burton would throw out a 109-point race.

OK, that would leave Johnson 104 points up on Edwards right now. He'd be 138 ahead of Biffle and 184 up on Burton. And that would be closer than it is now (Johnson leads Edwards by 183, Biffle by 185 and Burton by 218).

As always, though, where these things fall through is in how fast you can make up points.

Let's say next week Jimmie Johnson finishes 43rd at Texas and Edwards wins the race and leads the most laps. Under the current format, he'd gain 161 points and be 22 points behind.

But under the system Roush advocated, Johnson would throw out the 34 points he'd get at Texas and get back the 143-point race that's now his lowest. So Edwards would get 195 points and Johnson, in effect, would get 143 from Texas.

So Edwards would pick up 52 points and would be 52 back.

In other words, he'd be 30 points further back Roush's way than he would be the way things are now.

Look, what teams in the Cup series ought to do instead of worrying about how to change the Chase system is to figure out a way to beat the 48 team more often.

Johnson and his team come to the track and do their job. They got a lap down Sunday and fought all the way back to second place. A bunch of teams could have come in for tires with eight laps left in Sunday's race and tried to pick up positions. Johnson's team did, and Johnson moved from 11th to second in those eight laps.

The Chase system didn't give them those points. Johnson and his team earned them. Every last one of them. And every last one of them should count, too.


Stewart Fan said...

Jack seems to just talk without thinking very much. Just once I'd like one the media guys (hint,hint) to ask him about Toyota coming in and buying the Championship. Seems like he was all upset about that back when Kyle was dominating but now that the top Toyota is 8th, he hasn't mentioned it too much.

Mike Hutton said...

David, I hope you can e-mail the text of this blog entry to Mr. Rousch. Your math drives the point home supurbly. When will he understand that the 48 team is simply better than everyone else right now? His marbles haven't been straight since that helicopter crash.

I know...maybe if he's got all these great ideas floating around, he can try to figure out how MWR got that sway bar or who's got those engines that are missing?

John from Arkansas said...


Right on, man. Jacks just p.o.ed that none of his boys are going to win. So he starts whining again!

Paul Stagg said...

Actually, the chase did give Jimmy points - It gave points to everyone in the top 12 when they reset to 5000.

The 48 is a great team, regardless of the points system. That doesn't make the chase any less stupid.

I didn't watch the race yesterday, though. I was watching football.

Peter said...

I disagree that that the 48 team earned every point yesterday. NASCAR gave them a bunch of points with the lucky dog rule. Where would the points be today if JJ had not gotten laps back at Talledaga and Atlanta?

Anonymous said...

This mess can't be fixed. When racing was good, you had single or two-car owners. The five, now four, car owner deals do not work for the fans. It is boring. There are no personalities and no racing. I quit!

Randy said...

Its typical For Rousch to want to change things when it doesn't go his way...
I quess the race Rousch would love to trhow out is Tallidega when it was his driver that took out all 3 of his Chase contenders in one wreck...It wasn't Johnson driving the car
I'm no fan of either the Charity Chase for the cup....Or Jimmy Johnson....All I can say Enough of the whinning and crying about Changing everything that doesn't go your way Is this a sport or recess in Kindergarden
Randy Henry
Old School With An Attitude

Anonymous said...

Jacks been pissed ever since Mark left! If Jack had told Jeff Smith to shut the hell up and worked it out with Mark himself I believe they might have worked out something. Or maybe not, but its burning way down deep in Jack's gut knowing he is gonna get his ass kicked next year by his protege AND in a Chevy on top of that! It is a very long shot, but what will it say about Rousch and Ford if Mark wins the championship next year in a Chevy? That would be so awesome!

Anonymous said...

Peter- the lap WAS earned back. From what I saw NASCAR didn't hold all the lap cars in the pit and let the #48 out ahead of them all. Sheesh...

Zerkfitting said...

Have a separate scoring system for the chase drivers relative to each other. Also, make the chase for the cup only; positions 2 on back should use the current scoring system. I don't think a team should be guarantied a top twelve finish after just 2/3 of a season.

VillageIdiotIntern said...

The best way to generate excitement for the chase is to cut the chase races in half. That's right, five chase races. And for more excitement, reset the points of the top twenty drivers in the driver's points standings. Now we are in for five exciting races here, aren't we. I can envision the possibilities under this concept. No driver can afford any strategy but the all-out every lap of every race strategy in this format. Oh, what a spectacle this would be! It won't happen in my lifetime, but there's your excitement for you.

Monkeesfan said...

The only solution is to abandon the Chase format altogether, go back to the Latford Point System, and give 125 bonus points for winning the race and 100 bonus points for leading the most laps, so it becomes mathematically impossible to win the title without most wins and most laps led, and thus all the focus goes where it is supposed to be to begin with - on going for the win, no matter what lap it is.

snapsels said...

Once again Poole you have confirmed you are an Idiot!! IMHO It is real easy for you to sit and blast people for thinking!! Captain Jack in his mind has an option to make things better for the sport but all you see is an excuse to blast someone. The racing from the cookie cutter drivers on the cookie cutter tracks driving the cookie cutter cars is boring. At least he is offering something! What have you ever offered other than the crappy remarks You need to try and sell Crappy papers.

Todd said...

Amen, bruddah. I am a Jeff Gordon fan and not a huge fan of Jimmie Johnson. Having said that, I must also say that Chad and Jimmie are simply on fire. If the other teams want to change the status quo, then they should work harder and just beat the 48 team. That is clearly where the need to be focused. Oh yeah, Roush is an idiot.

Bob Miller said...

When has NA$CAR changed anything that Jack has wanted? He knows he has a better chance of Johnson feeling bad and hitting the wall or statring 3 laps down so they can catch up than any rules being changed! Don't waste too much ink on this theory.

Anonymous said...

Once again Jack's talking out of his azzhat.

He's a pompous toad.

Peter said...

You earn your lap back by passing the lead car on the race track. That is why you have double file restarts with lap down cars in one lane and lead lap cars in the other. If you can not pass the leader at the restart, as the 48 was unable to do on Sunday, you do not deserve your lap back. the concept of the sanctioning body giving away positions on the race track is contrary to everything racing is supposed to be.

Chas said...

The Chase system didn't give Jimmie Johnson points? Are you sure?

It gave him 1464 points, to be exact. Did he earn those on the track?

It's foolish that we have some silly format now deciding our champions rather than letting it play out over the course of the entire season. It's not about one race or ten races, it's about 36 races.

Monkeesfan said...

Peter, nothing Brian France and the foolish yes-men under his command - John Darby and company - is in keeping with what racing is supposed to be.

wolf said...

Jack is so used to nascars welfare system it's hard for him to think any other way. To him the mulligan would work the top way 35 is a mulligan if his or any other team has a bad day qualifying.

Anonymous said...

To all the Chase lovers: I stand corrected. The Chase did everything it was supposed to do - give more drivers a chance at the title, ensure excitement in the end of the season, get people away from football and tune into NASCAR and attract the casual ran. Oops, then again maybe NOT.

Anonymous said...

Mike Hutton;It's a pretty safe bet that Roush has more degree's,Races,Wins,Championships,etc,than you ever will!We made a suggestion;I believe you should just take it as such,and STFU!!!Wolf.....(ditto)!!!!All the man did was make a suggestion he was asked about!

btrnr said...

Get rid of the free ride, free pass, free lap. I think it is one of the dumbest things nascar has done. The jerk in 18 won a race in the regular season because of it. And 48 had a distinct advantage by getting a free lap last Sunday. When the yellow flies, they know where every car is. It is not necessary to give anyone a freebie. Let 'em work for it.

nh_nascarfan said...


It’s obvious that you are the idiot. Did you not read David’s blog or do the math? A mulligan would HURT Edwards, Biffle & the rest. The numbers don’t lie. He has taken the time to do the math for you, and did so last week in showing just how other point formats wouldn’t work either.

The bottom line is the dominant team during the playoffs is kicking tail and taking names, and no amount of massaging the numbers would change that.

The chase system is just a microcosm of the old format, but instead of 1 car dominating through 36 races, it’s now 10 races. Going back to the old system changes nothing; the team that dominates over the specified number of races - 10, 36, or 300 - will end up with the most points and be crowned champion.

People complain of the lucky dog. I agree, bad rule. Perhaps drivers wouldn’t hang back at superspeedways the way Johnson did at Talladega. But keep in mind that Johnson isn’t the only one who has benefitted, all 43 cars on the track have the shot at it if they go a lap down, so it’s a fair rule. That doesn’t mean it’s a good rule, but it is fair. But keep in mind that racing back to the yellow was a worse rule.

As far as Johnson getting extra points because of the chase? Yeah, so did the other 11 drivers in it, so what’s your point?

I do love the idea of cutting the chase from 10 races to five; perhaps one superspeedway (Talladega), one short track (Martinsville), one 1-mile (New Hampshire or Dover), and two intermediates.

Anonymous said...

Jack.... PUT A SOCK IN IT.

Might I remind you it's because your teams dominance several years ago when Kenseth won the Championship that we have this rediculous Chase format.

Take your beating, do your homework over the winter and stop acting like school yard sore loser; It's not your ball but you can go home.

Mike Hutton said...

Anonymous #6 10/28 11:12 - I'll give you that Jack certainly has more races and championships in NASCAR than I do. I'll beg to differ on degrees, however. If you'd like a detailed resume, please let me know.

I'd also take you far more seriously if you had the class to post under a real identity. Until then sir/madam, your thoughts don't mean too much to me.

And yes, you're correct that Mr. Rousch was just offering his response to a question that was asked of him. I simply maintain that he comes off as a fool when said response would actually make the #99 team worse off, which cannot be denied.

Have a wonderful day.

snapsels said...

NH fan I wonder if Poole moves his fingers do your lips move I beleive so IMHO

nh_nascarfan said...


Nope. I just have common sense and the ability to do basic math and have basic reading ability.

Not so with you... unless of course you can logically explain how the 99 team would be better off with a mulligan? You cant, but I'm sure I will enjoy reading your response if you try.

Anonymous said...

Doesn't matter how you figure it David, nascar's chase is again cheating the fans out of a good points race under the old system. I guess manufactured drama isn't working out so good huh?

Anonymous said...

Five more green flag laps and JJ would have won that race.

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