Wednesday, August 20, 2008

In accepting responsibility, Gibbs makes the right call

If you are a fan of Joe Gibbs Racing, you should be proud of that team today.

Here's what team owner and founder Joe Gibbs said Wednesday after NASCAR announced penalties against his team for their cheating - and that's precisely what it was -at Saturday's Nationwide Series race at Michigan.

"We want to apologize to NASCAR, all of our partners, all of our families at JGR and all of our fans. ... A poor decision was made by some key members of our organization, and 100 percent of the blame rests with us. ...We take full responsibility."

It wasn't NASCAR's fault. It wasn't the media's fault. It didn't have anything to do with how many teams might have cheated in the past or with how many might cheat in the future.

We did it, Gibbs said. We shouldn't have, but we did and we take all the blame.

Seven members of the Gibbs team were suspended indefinitely by NASCAR. You would assume that means longer than six races, which has been the standard suspension of late, but indefinite means we don't know how long that means.

Gibbs, though, said that regardless of what NASCAR means, the team will suspend those involved, including crew chief Jason Ratcliff of the No. 18 team and Dave Rogers of the No. 20 team, for at least the remainder of this season. The team will also impose additional fines, above the $50,000 fine levied by NASCAR, on those involved and will make those people pay those fines.

Ratcliff and Rogers were among those suspended Wednesday. So were the car chiefs (Dorian Thorsen on the 18 and Richard Bray from the 20) and engine tuners (Michael Johnson from the 18 and Dan Bajek from the 20). The seventh person suspended was Toby Bigelow, a crew member on the No. 18 team.

We don't know all about who did what or who knew about what was being done, but we know that Gibbs and his team are holding those seven people accountable. And It's about damn time a team in stock car racing showed it knows what that word means.

I've had fans tell me this wasn't cheating because the shims weren't in the car during the race, so it didn't have any impact on the performance of the cars. That's completely idiotic.

Brad Keselowski said it right when he said that by using the shims to try to fool NASCAR's dyno tests, the JGR culprits were trying to cheat for the rest of this year and the first part of next year - until such time as NASCAR does another dyno test on Nationwide cars.

When NASCAR ordered Toyota teams to use a carburetor spacer with smaller holes to let air in, cutting them by about 15 horsepower, it surprised nobody that Toyota teams and officials objected to that decision.

But that's NASCAR's call. Once it was made, the fact that somebody at JGR disagreed with it or tried to hide the fact they'd worked their way around it wasn't justified.

Even if an official makes an obviously poor call, no participant in any sport is thereby justified in proceeding as though the call wasn't made. If the Green Bay Packers don't like a holding call, they can't ignore the penalty and snap the ball anywhere they want to on the field, can they?

You can't choose what portion of the rules you want to play by, not if you want to play with any honor or integrity. In dealing with this situation the way it has, Joe Gibbs Racing has showed that it has honor and integrity and it should be applauded for that.

What's so disheartening about stock car racing sometimes is that there are people who'll still say that the only thing JGR did wrong was get caught.

The culture in NASCAR that glorifies those who break the rules sickens me, and it always has.

You can be an innovator and not be a cheater. Thousands of dedicated racers have developed ways to go faster in this sport's history and they've done it the right way. They're the ones who should be praised and honored, not those who're constantly looking for shortcuts.

Cheating is another way of saying you don't have the ability to do things the right way and still be a success.

Cheating is a way of saying that you want to win, but only the easy way. You don't want to win badly enough and can't do your job well enough to do it fair and square.

Cheating is a cowardly, selfish act. It's taking responsibility for it and taking steps to keep it from happening again, as JGR has done in this case, that takes courage.

53 comments:

Monkeesfan said...

While Gibbs took responsibility for this, it was likely easier knowing that the penalties NASCAR was going to hand down would not be particularly onerous to an organization as big as JGR.

And of course, in the end the punishments handed donw don't hurt the organization. Again.

Anonymous said...

My wandering mind questions whether the magnets were in place for the previous dyno test. In any case, I think the Toyota teams are being penalized for being too fast. Assuming the engine package as they originally raced it earlier in the year was in fact legal, how does the punishing their success fit in to the fair play concept? The redistribution of wins is not in the spirit of any competitive sporting event.

Anonymous said...

It would be nice if certain members of the media had the same sense of accountability. Minutes before the start of the Chicago Cup race a writer (not David Poole) for a major, internet sports site posted an article saying HOF had been caught with 15 pounds of lead in a water bottle. Subsequently, that article was pulled and re-written with the correct facts. So far I have not seen where FOX Sports or the writer have issued a correction or apology for erroneously reporting that HOF had been caught cheating. It would seem that the media should be accountable for its errors also, but..........

Richard in N.C. said...

DAVID- Yes, this was cheating - but the public cannot know who was or was not involved until the details of how the magnets were put into place becomes public knowledge.

Anonymous said...

David Poole, bless you for saying what needed to be said. It seems like no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions these days. If this happened to anyone else, there would have been lawyers involved, trying to figure out how to cast the shadow somewhere else. Briefs would have been filed, and depositions would be scheduled. And somehow a mega-million dollar punitive damage price tag would have been laid on the steps of the NASCAR courthouse.
Go Coach Gibbs, you know the honorable way of the world.

Anonymous said...

I don't know who was to blame; however, contrary to Tim Brewer's opinion, I doubt that it was Tony Stewart. We all know that Tony is a "Chevy" guy and the last thing that Tony would do is to participate in a scheme to falsify Toyota dyno numbers. In July, when Tony was asked about NASCAR taking away Toyota HP on Tony Stewart Live, he stated that NASCAR was doing what it had to do to even the playing field.

Anonymous said...

Monkeesfan (aka STP43FAN), the fines that were levied against JGR were huge for Nationwide standards. The Nationwide teams don't make as much money as the cup teams. I bet that Dave Rodgers and Jason Ratcliff think that $50,000 was substantial, especially since, per JGR, the fine will come out of their pockets.

Anonymous said...

Beerslush says:

I knew Gibbs would own up to his teams being responsible. He's a good man.

What's screwed up about this whole situation is that it never needed to occur in the first place.

That's where I disagree with Poole. NASCAR IS to blame for creating this intolerable environment to start.

It was NASCAR who approved the Toyota engines to race this year. They passed all of NASCAR's inspections. They were built within all of NASCAR's specifications.

Gibb's cars and engines were and are completely legal according to NASCAR. Their engines produce as much horsepower as most other teams, in some cases more than other teams, and as we saw in the last dyno test results, produced less horsepower than a few other teams.

Yet NASCAR decided to cut the horsepower on Toyota teams anyway. Striving for parity? Huh. There's the lie.

Think of what message that sent to the Gibbs teams who worked hard to produce winning race cars, all within the rules, playing fair and square, only to have their hard work dismantled by a callous and unjust decision by NASCAR.

A decision that was for no other reason than to punish hard work and ingenuity and reward weak, lazy, and miserly teams who couldn't "compete" with them.

That, my friends, is socialism.

In NASCAR, you say? The bastion of red-blooded, all-American competitive spirit? Where the teams that work the hardest enjoy the fruits of victory? Say it ain't so.

But it is so. We see it more and more everyday. Little Timmy isn't getting good grades in school so let's lower the standards.

The other Nationwide teams are getting their butts whipped week in and week out, so let's hamstring the Toyota teams.

That sure is a far cry from what made this sport so great.

The responsible parties at Gibbs did a bad thing. But when you consider the history of what happened, and how NASCAR ham-fisted their way through this whole debacle, you understand why good people who poured their hearts into their work and achieved success, success that was earned FAIR AND SQUARE, might do such a thing.

Those people didn't want to see their efforts pilfered and plundered, once again, by NASCAR executives that no longer understand or appreciate what made the sport they now control so great.

No excuse will ever justify the Gibbs teams for preempting what they were sure was to be a degrading and humiliating kick to the crotch from NASCAR in the form of another horsepower robbing "rule change".

But NASCAR had better look deep into the mirror and decide whether what they have done has improved the future of the sport or pushed it further down the path of a socialist Utopian dreamland where hard work and individual achievement are scorned and rebuked.

Anonymous said...

Oh, don't worry, Mr. BeerSlush...
NASCAR will be on the other side of the penalty equation after the revelations and judgements in the Mauricia Grant v. NASCAR litigation.

The penalties, fines and overall damages NASCAR will be forced to own up to will be far more severe than those levied against Joe Gibbs Racing.

Just wait and see...

"You reap what you sow!"

Anonymous said...

Beerslush says:

"You reap what you sow!"

Indeed.

We'll see if the arrogance and hubris of NASCAR management is tempered...

...or inflamed, to the detriment of the competitors, sponsors and fans who ultimately pay the bills in this sport.

Anonymous said...

A slap on the wrist. Why am I not surprised?

As for the post regarding "fair play concept," what planet have you been on? Chevrolet/Ford/Dodge are all aware that to have a measurable performance advantage in NASCAR is to lose it. Toyota didn't do it's homework (history, not horsepower) and it lost the horsepower gain it achieved.

A final thought: David, I don't always agree with what you write but I always enjoy reading it. Thanks for what you do.

Anonymous said...

Beerslush you state that "A decision that was for no other reason than to punish hard work and ingenuity and reward weak, lazy, and miserly teams who couldn't "compete" with them."

Perhaps some of those teams could better compete if they were allowed to use the R07 engine. Instead Nascar, as you stated punishes them for their hard work.

The law used to allow me to drive 65mph. It was changed to 55 mph. I don't like the law but it's the law. Driving a racecar is no different than me driving my car. It's a priviledge, not a right. And in doing so I have to follow the rules or pay the price.

The biggest problem I have with Joe Gibbs is that he left out a lot of people. He apologized to his people, his sponsors, and his fans. What about the fans for the other drivers, the other teams, owners, and drivers? He should be apologizing to them for what his people attempted to do which was change the results of the dyno test which I think we can safely assume was to get their HP back.

Shame on Joe for forgetting his teams actions would have lasting effects on others besides those he employs.

Monkeesfan said...

The 55 MPH analogy ignores that that law is never consistently enforced.

Monkeesfan said...

anonymous #7, it's Joe Gibs Racing, a gigantic racing organization. This isn't a Grand National Series regular, it's a Winston Cup team fielding GN cars. To say that this fine is big by the standards of the series ignores that the team involved is a WC organization.

"The fine will come out of their pockets. I doubt it will hurt them all that much.

The fine should have been in multi-million of dollars, the loss of points should have exceeded 1,000 per car, and the organization should have been disqualified for at least six races - make punishment so hurt the team that their season is destryed because of cheating.

Anonymous said...

Maybe just a public hanging would be enough?

Anonymous said...

Toyota won too many poles and races so Nascar said, "We'll choke Toyota's carburetors." Toyota kept winning poles and races and Nascar said, "We'll get rid of everyone but the team owner and the car drivers at JGR. That'll show Toyota who's boss. Can't have a 'furriner' doing better than our American teams."

NASCAR: Where you can be no better than the worst. If you're better, you're doing something illegal.

Anonymous said...

"Perhaps some of those teams could better compete if they were allowed to use the R07 engine. Instead Nascar, as you stated punishes them for their hard work."

Beerslush responds:

Boo hoo. And that's a lie. The R07 has been approved for Sprint Cup already.

The problem is cost. Nationwide teams don't have the bank rolls of the Cup teams. The R07 will effectively obsolete all the SB2's that teams have already invested heavily in. Not all Nationwide teams can afford the higher cost of the R07 engine.

But you know what? Again, boo hoo. That's not Toyota's problem.

Teams that can't or won't pony up the dollars for the newer R07 engine should blame themselves. Or maybe racing isn't for them. Maybe they should go sell flowers or something.

And while the R07 engine may help other teams next year (although the same restriction that has been placed on the Toyota engine will need to be placed on the R07 engine) the fact remains that the Nationwide R07 engine was never ready for prime time this year anyway, so your argument is a non sequitur.

Toyota brought a completed, race ready engine to the series this year and it was approved for use by NASCAR. Period. If the GM teams didn't have their engine programs ready for Nationwide competition this year, that's not Toyota's fault.

Nice try, but your argument doesn't hold water.

Anonymous said...

I'm tired of NASCAR leveling the playing filed. Who says that needs doing? If I can build a faster car within the strict guidelines already there, leave me alone. Joe took responsibility which is the high rode but who really believes he knew anything about it? With 400 employees, how could he? How could MW know about fulegate, which by the way has never been explained by NASCAR, but he was crucified to the point of ruination. People are so judgemental and ridiculous.
Pushing the envelope is what made this sport and fining the teams to the point of bankruptcy for pushing the envelope will be the ruin of the sport as well.

Whoever builds the fastest car should win and everyone else should work to catch up or shut up.

Anonymous said...

Level the playing field. That should have been done when the rule book was printed. I race for a living and nothing bothers me more than the sanctioning execs changing the rules partway through the season. That and the selective enforcement of rules, which is mostly a NASCAR problem, at least in Busch and AllPro(RIP). This is not about leveling the power output, this is satisfying big money sponsors by trying to make sure someone else wins a race or two. At the local short track, every two races you win means you have to add 25 pounds to your car. The guy that wins all the races is carrying 125 pounds now, and they have a bounty on him, and they get him to start in the back by paying him extra purse. NASCAR needs to stop penalizing the Toyotas, and tell the other teams to get faster.

Anonymous said...

Well, If JGR are known as cheaters so shall HMS #1 offender, JFR, RCR, DEI, MWR, Need I say more.

Anonymous said...

Monkeesfan, the fines against the two crew chiefs are huge. JGR has already stated that the crew chiefs would be responsible for paying the fine out of their own pockets in addition to the monetary penalties that JGR will impose.

It does not matter that JGR has both a Cup and Nationwide program. It was a NW penalty; therefore, the punishment should be in line with other NW penalties. If a millionare gets caught speeding, the cost of the ticket is not more just because he has more money than the average Joe.

JGR just got hit with the largest NW penalty ever levied. I guess that some just will not be happy unless NASCAR parks all the JGR cars. Maybe years ago, if NASCAR would have parked the entire Petty organization when the King got caught with the cheater engine, then the message would have been sent to the teams to clean up their acts.

Anonymous said...

>>The culture in NASCAR that glorifies those who break the rules sickens me, and it always has.<<

David, David, David.

Anybody who doesn't think about Smokey Yunick's 2" wide fuel line and grin isn't much of a race fan!

Anonymous said...

monkeesfan said "The fine should have been in multi-million of dollars, the loss of points should have exceeded 1,000 per car, and the organization should have been disqualified for at least six races - make punishment so hurt the team that their season is destryed because of cheating."

So monkeesfan, If that is to be the fine for Gibbs, then to be fair, Hendrick's Chad Knaus should probably should have been banned for years and the team fined multi-Billions. Get real, this is an aberration for JGR, unlike the aforementioned Hendrick team, where doing business on the wrong side of the rulebook has been standard operating procedure.

Anonymous said...

Last thing NASCAR is going to do is ban the two JGR cars. The NW filed already has too many "start and park" teams that make the race each week. (not too many weeks ago, half the field had already 'parked it' before the half way point of the race)

Anonymous said...

If your not cheating your not trying

Anonymous said...

Stop with the cheating word. JGR built a better engine within the rules and was penalized for it. Thtas cheating.

Pushing the envelope to find an advantage is NOT cheating for gosh sakes. Why did The King, RP, win 200 races? Because he had the most money to pay the best people to build the fastest cars, period. These rules are squashing the ingenuity and creativeness of the crews and teams. It IS about the money and making sure the JAck Rouschs and Rick Hendricks of the world and their sponsors are happy.

The whole thing is turning so vanilla that who's best has nothing to do with it and pretty soon, who'll care.we might as well turn everything into an IROC race.

Jim Sellers said...

Since Joe Gibbs is a very vocal Christian, maybe he should instruct the teammate who expressed "remorse" for his actions. "Remorse" is often associated with being sorry only after one is caught in the act. "Repentant" is being truly sorry for the act.

Monkeesfan said...

anonymous #17, the good of the sport says the playing field needs to be level. The sport was not made by pushing the envelope, it was made by a tight rules package, lead changes galore, and racers who valued winning over just getting a good average finish.

anonymous #21, it's not relevant to anything. The punishment did not take into account the size of the team involved. The crew chiefs may pay the fines out of their salaries, but it won't hurt them that much.

The analogy with Petty ignores that Petty was NOT that much bigger than the teams he raced against, and also ignores the wider context of cheating in the sport, namely that the car he beat out (Darrell Waltrip) was sent home by NASCAR as soon as the race was over and thus could not be reinspected, this even though Waltrip backed off to let Petty take the win in that race.

I've nothing against JGR; my beef is with these superteams in general never getting punishment for cheating that takes into account their size; the fine handed down to JGR isn't much; a fine that actually punishes the organization and makes the cheating a ticket to the ruination of the season is what is needed to deter cheating in the future.

Monkeesfan said...

anonymous #24, that's a different issue - the fact NASCAR has let Buschwackers bankrupt the series regulars.

Lloyd said...

The "IROC" Series is gone, but NASCAR is well on it's way to filling the void. No need to work on making your car better because if you figure out a way to do something that makes you faster within the rules they will just force you to alter something else to take the advantage away. This is getting insane. I agree that JGR cheated, but the issue stems before that and the blame should be put on the sanctioning body!

The shim's would have never been used if NASCAR would not have penalized them for their hard work. Enough Said.

Bob 8828 said...

JD knew what was going on, Joe probably didn't. They should be parked for a few weeks to ponder their deed!

Anonymous said...

I do agree the fines will not hurt the driver points wont matter since neither are running for the championship, owner points nope still 168 ahead of RCR,

But I know thAt Joe and the Gibbs immediate family are faithful Christians, and what is going to hurt them the most is public perception, and the fact that his witness for Christ has taken a hit on the radio, TV and websites like this one. Now there will be some nay sayers out there but the facts are as a christian we are held to a higher standard. And if our faith is real we will do everything in our power to right a wrong in which we were involved in.

God Bless

Anonymous said...

Get off your high horse David. Cheating has been a part of nascar since it started as with all sports except maybe golf. They got caught and penalized. Don't try to change the sport.

Gibbs is giving lip service on this just as Waltrip did when he got caught. I doubt anything more will happen to those suspended.

Joe Gibbs isn't God, he's another owner.

Anonymous said...

What does everyone expect him to say? They got caught red handed, and probably red faced too. He can't deny it and act like it was a honest mistake or operating in a gray area. They got busted, plain and simple. Some expendable sap will take the fall and a memo will go out telling everyone not to be so damn careless next time.

marc said...

anon - "My wandering mind questions whether the magnets were in place for the previous dyno test. In any case, I think the Toyota teams are being penalized for being too fast."

Um excuse me but the previous dyno test was done on an engine dyno, i.e. engine out of the car. The test done at MIS was in the car on a chassis dyno. The two are not caparable whatsoever.

marc said...

anon - "It seems like no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions these days. If this happened to anyone else, there would have been lawyers involved, trying to figure out how to cast the shadow somewhere else."

Why would you think that? Can you cite when it has in the case of a team caught cheating?

marc said...

anon - "Toyota didn't do it's homework (history, not horsepower) and it lost the horsepower gain it achieved."

They achieved? How about what Gibbs achieved, what other Toy teams has come close to the Gibbs performance? None is the answer, and is the point beerlush related so well.

NASCAR, in their lunacy singled out a single team then made all the Toy teams pay the price.

marc said...

monkeesass - "The fine should have been in multi-million of dollars, the loss of points should have exceeded 1,000 per car, and the organization should have been disqualified for at least six races - make punishment so hurt the team that their season is destryed because of cheating.

Destroyed their season?

What season? If you think other than the embarrassment, a team that is NOT running for, not ever had any intentions to run for the championship would give one hoot your delusional. But most know that about you anyway.

Beside that, even if they were given what you claim is "just," you'd still whine and complain and advocate they also should be banned from all the other NASCAR series.

marc said...

monkessass - "I've nothing against JGR; my beef is with these superteams in general never getting punishment for cheating that takes into account their size; the fine handed down to JGR isn't much;"

Lets say you get what you want. Gibbs was fined a bazillion bucks and both teams pulled from NNS competition for the rest of 2008.

Now, lets also say next week or the week after a small team say Kenny Wallace's or Burney Lamar gets caught with Mikey's infamous Jet Fuel.

NASCAR being consistent with the Gibbs penalties levies the same fine and pulls their cars for the season.

On it's face you could say it's fair, but....

And the point beerlush is making if NASCAR sets a high precedent for the NNS teams to be consistent they may down the road bankrupt the very teams the series is designed for.

But you'll never admit that point no matter how much sense it makes.

In fact you'd be the first in line gnashing teeth and whining your whine if NASCAR did levy a smaller penalty under my scenario,

marc said...

bob 8828 - "JD knew what was going on, Joe probably didn't. They should be parked for a few weeks to ponder their deed!"

And you have proof of this? Lets see it!

Not that you will read this. You dropped your little turd of wisdom and then flew out of here never to be seen nor herd from again.

Prove me wrong nitwit.

Anonymous said...

I'm always amazed at how many people or mind readers and KNOW that JD and Joe knew what was happening and that Michael KNEW what was happening. Wish I had that kind of mind reading ability.
Fact is someone from outside of the organization could be totally responsible. I am not JGR fan nor do I hate them but being without a dog in the hunt, it sure is funny to see so many "facts" being slung around. I don't know who knew what and neither do you.
I do know that trying to circumvent the test was wrong. as wrong as something that would effect the outcome of a race? I don't think so and therefore the fines are just another example of Big Brother throwing their weight around. Way to excessive under the circumstances. Set the rules once and then get out of the way.
Life long fans that I know have already quit watching and it won't be long before we all do. Hard work and ingenuity are penalized so that the lousy teams can compete. Who cares.

Sympliredd said...

NASCAR may have made the mistake in changing the rules mid-season with the Toyota teams, but they want to keep this sport on an even playing field as much as they can. With that said.. what the Crew Chiefs did on the 18 and 20 car is just like someone falsifying a timecard. It's wrong and unethical. They are getting the penalties they deserve for actions detrimental to JGR. I respect the JGR organization for owning the responsibility instead of making excuses. This is a hard lesson to learn, but I hope it sends a very strong message to the rest of the teams to not mess with the rules. If you send out bad Karma it will come back to you 3-times as bad.. so don't do it!!!

Anonymous said...

RE: Mikey's Jet Fuel,
I thought jet fuel was kerosene. Why would you want to burn kerosene in Nascar? Unless you're going to have some spark advance that would blow the engine on gasoline.

I bet Nascar officials are Democrats. Democrats are the ones that say every thing has to be equal. No one can have an advantage over another.

Anonymous said...

I happen to know 3 current NASCAR officials, all of whom are assigned to pit stalls during Sprint Cup events. Each one of them falls just to the right of Hitler on the political spectrum.

Julie said...

"We don't know all about who did what or who knew about what was being done, but we know that Gibbs and his team are holding those seven people accountable. And It's about damn time a team in stock car racing showed it knows what that word means."

Actually, all we know is that JD said they would hold their people accountable. Right after the offense JD acted all kind of outraged, saying heads would roll, blah, blah, blah.

Now, because they're super sorry it's all good. He's now saying they'll perhaps fine their team members (something they can't do according to NC labor law) and "add" to NASCAR's suspension. How do you add to "indefinitely"? Mostly what JD wants is to move on.

I bet he does.

I was very impressed with JGR's initial reaction to this incident. Now? It would have been better if JD had just skipped the outraged act, because actions speak louder than words.

Monkeesfan said...

Marc, get real for a change. Post #38 makes zero sense - hek, it doesn't even try to make sense; it's just your brainless hatred spewing forth.

Your next post ignores the main point - the punishments have to take into account the size of the teams involved; you don't fine Robby Gordon's team $1 million but you do fine them enough that they lose their season because of cheating.

The punishments have to take into account the size of the teams involved. This is what beerlush (who?) and yourself do not recognize (in your case because you don't understand racing and are driven by a hate-mongering agenda). A 150 point fine or $100,000 fine to a Hendrick or JGR doeen't hurt them; it does hurt a Michael Waltrip. The only way to hurt the big teams is million-plus dollar fines and thousand-point penalties.

By taking the size of the teams inolved into account, that's being consistent.

nh_nascarfan said...

Monkeesfan...

The only thing that will hurt every team... large or small...AND be consistant... is to PARK THE CAR for the next race. No substitute driver, just a parked car with a pissed off sponsor and pissed off fans. Happens a second time? Park for 2 races. Third time? Three races.

The message will be sent, loud and clear, to all teams... but NASCAR has to have the guts to do what is right for the integrity of the sport, only then will cheating be curtailed as a whole.

As long as the benefit outweighs the risk teams will chance cheating; risking losing a 20 million dollar a year sponsor will be too high a price to pay.

Tiggy said...

Roush got his wish by whining about the HP that Gibbs "manufactured". He will have a complete meltdown if Nissan, Volkswagen and Honda come to NASCAR.

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清朝美女 said...

(法新社倫敦四日電) 英國情色大亨芮孟的a片下載公司昨天AV片說,芮孟日成人影片前去成人網站世,sex享壽八十二歲;色情這位身av價上億的房地產開發情色電影商,曾經在倫敦推成人網站出第一場脫衣舞表av演。

色情影片
芮孟的財產成人影片估計成人達六億五千萬英鎊(台幣將a片近四百億),由於他名下事業大多分布在倫敦夜生活區蘇活區色情成人因此擁有「蘇活情色視訊之王」日本av的稱號。
部落格

他的成人電影公司「保羅芮孟集團」旗成人網站下發行多a片種情色雜av誌,包括「Razavzav女優leavdvd」、「男性世界」以及「Mayfai情色電影r」。色情a片
a片下載
色情
芮孟情色本名傑福瑞.安東尼.奎恩,父av女優親為搬運承a片包商。芮孟十五歲離開學校,矢言要在表演事部落格業留名,起先表演讀心術,後來成為巡迴歌舞雜耍表演av女優的製作情色人。


許多評論a片成人電影認為,他把情色表演帶進主流社會,一九五九部落格年主持破天荒的脫衣舞表演,後來成人影片更靠著在蘇活區與成人光碟倫敦西區開發房地產賺得大筆財富。


有人形容芮孟是英國的海夫納,地位等同美國的「花花公子」創辦人海夫納。

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