If you saw the end of the Toyota All-Star Showdown for Camping World East and West series cars Saturday night, chances are you've decided whether NASCAR made the right call or not.
Me, I am just interested to see that NASCAR did make a call.
You need to check out video replays of the finish on TV or the Internet to get a true appreciation of what happened. But in brief summary, Peyton Sellers had emerged from a three-way battle with the lead with Joey Logano and Matt Kobyluck chasing him over the final laps.
On the last lap, Logano was second entering Turn 3 and dove way low on the track, hoping to pass Sellers. As they came through Turn 4, Logano's car slid up the track and into Sellers' car on the outside. The move took Sellers into the outside wall, crashing him.
Logano righted himself in time to get across the finish line first just ahead of Kobyluck, who had eased back enough to miss the Sellers-Logano incident that he saw developing.
After the race, though, Kobyluck was declared the winner. Logano was penalized and moved to last place for his move.
There are a lot of ways you can go with this one. You could point out, for instance, that Logano's move wasn't particularly different from the much-celebrated move Carl Edwards tried on Jimmie Johnson on the final lap of last season's Cup race at Kansas.
The result, however, was quite different. Edwards went up the track and hit the wall, but he didn't hit Johnson. Johnson went on to win and Edwards finished second.
You could argue, I guess, that if Edwards' move was OK then Logano's should have been, too. But the result does matter. Edwards wound up not doing anything that damaged the chances anybody else had to win. Logano did. It's like in basketball, when you have a "no harm, no foul" concept, and that's perfectly reasonable.
Some people seem to be taking great pleasure in the fact that NASCAR took the win away from Logano because it was Logano. Because he's 18 and already has a Cup ride in the No. 20 Toyotas this year, some fans feel Logano is getting too much, too fast. Some fans go further, saying Logano is NASCAR's newest "chosen one," and find glee that he would be on the wrong side of a NASCAR call.
On the other hand, some fans might see that Logano went all-out to win in what was a non-points event where winning is supposed to be what matters and will find a new appreciation for him.
What I wonder is whether in the same circumstances NASCAR would change the winner of the Sprint All-Star Race at Lowe's Motor Speedway. Given the same circumstances and the same results, the call should be the same. But I doubt it would be.
One last point: The driver who was disadvantaged by what Logano did at the finish Saturday night at Irwindale Speedway was Peyton Sellers. He's the guy who had the lead with just a few yards to go, but he wound up 14th as the last car on the lead lap.
Even in taking the win away from Logano, there was nothing it could have done to make things right for Sellers. So was there any justice, ultimately, in what took place?
Sunday, January 25, 2009
NASCAR made a call, so it must be 'what-if' time
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35 comments:
I favor taking away wins from drivers who wreck someone else to win the race. Logano got what he deserved; if this is how he's going to race at the Cup level (and it will be), then he deserves to fail totally.
NASCAR should have done this with Earnhardt, Gordon, the lot of them more than they ever did over the years.
People, cut it out with the "rubbing is racing" BS. Because racing is about doing it clean.
BTW, the comparison with Edwards and Johnson at Kansas should emphasize a salient point - Edwards made a clean pass, but slid into the wall; he didn't take out Johnson.
BTW, here is a compendium of wrecks from that race and the finish. I feel doubly bad for the other car that got hit by Sellers and hammered the wall at the flag; doubly irresponsible by that Jerk Logano.
So David, how is this different from what Earnhardt did to Labonte?
The is a classic case of the scum bag peices of shit that run this sport, that turn this crap into a case of who is involved and the politics involved. If you honestly think that should have been penalized compared to all the other BS that has been let go in this sport, you need to go revisit history and start asking some questions.
What he said.
This is case in point as to why NASCAR is bordering on running itself into the ground. The sport was built on hard-nosed bumping and banging. To take that away is to try and turn it into a Formula 1 like situation. It does not serve anyone.
I don't understand why Logano finished 40th and Hornaday gets to finish 6th? Hornaday wrecked half the field and the potential race winner out of the lead!
Hey David, why dont you leave the Nascar shill reporting for Moody and the idiots on Nascar.com.
First that Brian France isnt an idiot article, and then this.
So why wasnt Peyton Sellers penalized then for putting Logano in the wall in the first place? David get your head out of your ass.
The sport is Called RACING not Wrecking. Real racecar drivers pass without laying a fender on anyone!!! Mistakes happen but when it is intended for the sole purpose to gain a position or win the race something should be done!! IMHO nascar made a correct call and should do way more. If and when that ever happens!!!!
Monkeesfan, thanks for the link. I don't have SPEED, so it was great to see the crash for myself.
I kinda doubt Cup drivers are going to put up with Logano, if that's the way he is going to compete.
1. NASCAR did the RIGHT thing in takng the win away from Logano. It's debatable whether he should be placed last on the lead lap, or last in the race, but he deserved to be stripped of the win.
2. Keep in mind, Sellers is no saint -- he got the lead by driving over Logano. Some form of payback was called for. But wrecking Sellers? Over the line. And no one seems to be mentioning that Logano's actions resulted in severe damage to cars OTHER THAN Sellers'.
3. I've long felt that if a driver's attempt at payback results in damage to an innocent third party, then a penalty is called for.
4. NASCAR did the WRONG thing in not penalizing Hornaday for taking out the race leader with a massively bone-headed move earlier in the race. Why was Ron Hornaday even in this race to begin with?? How were hs actions any different than some taken by Kyle Busch in the Truck series last season, which led to wrecked Trucks?
5. As another poster here wrote, "This is RACING, not WRECKING." It takes no skill to knock the leader out of the way. If that's what you're into, I suggest you check out a demo derby.
6. NASCAR does itself a disservice by not taking a dimmer view of rough driving. It reduces NASCAR to the level of "pro" wrestling. Officials are there to make decisions; some of those decisions will be judgement calls. And, just like with any other sport, the judgement calls will be debated by fans and in the press.
"People, cut it out with the "rubbing is racing" BS. Because racing is about doing it clean."
"5. As another poster here wrote, "This is RACING, not WRECKING." It takes no skill to knock the leader out of the way."
I couldn't agree with the 2previous quotes more. Do you suppose that Nascar wanted to send Logano a clear message before he started Cup, not to be another Kyle Busch...?
Marybeth
First of all its a common practice in East and West races that if their is any rough driving on the last few laps their will be a penalty.
Second its a totally different officiating crew for these races compared to cup races so its not about sending a message to Logano.
Sellers didnt race clean and hasnt raced clean in his years behind the wheel so you cant really feel bad for him.
Finally i highly doubt that the "choosen one" "Sliced Bread" or whatever you want to call him will race like this in cup. I have not seen this kid do any of that in the last 4 years driving a stock car.
It was a non points event where he was roughed up and wasnt going to do everything he could to win.
Was not wasn't
Being a HUGE Hornaday fan I was disappointed with his judgment last night. I was there at the race and saw that his truck could not pass on the bottom (except on restarts) so why on earth he thought it would work in four is beyond me. He also took out a leader. In fact the only thing different is the lap number it happened on. I am not a Logano fan AT ALL but felt his punishment was unjust based on their decision with Hornaday. Once again Nascar has shown us how they are consistently inconsistent.
Ya' know, it doesn't justify it, but Sellers did put Lagano in the fence first. His pass was FAR from being a clean one. That said, it was an all star race and Lagano went for it and it didn't go the way he'd of liked. I don't think that he intended to hit sellers, but then I doubt that he cared due to the manner in which Sellers passed him.
NASCAR finally made a call. Whoopee. They won't be consistent. It's easy to make this call with Lagano in a small all star race. Do you honestly believe that they will do the same with the bigger names on a national stage? They should have just left this alone as well. That way they could have shown some consistency.
The sanctioning body should black out these races from TV. Sooner or later people are going to catch on to the fact that this is where the real racing happens, and stop wasting their time on the vast majority of Cup races. Logano must be sad he's going to have to leave this good hard racing behind.
The youtube video of the race ending that I saw started seven laps back from the end. In laps six and five from the end, there was lots of bumping and grinding and wall-hitting. Still, Joey Logano, and I'm a fan, still shouldn't have gotten the win on that one.
Anonymous #6 - wrong. NASCAR was built on racing hard but racing each other clean.
I don't care for Logano, I've already heard TOO MUCH about him being the next 'coming' but it didn't look like he did it on purpose, just hard racing, the other driver looked like he was in the 'no zone' already. Guess we need to be checking NASCAR.com, we didn't even know they or the trucks were racing!!
Good greif....it was an allstar race,not the Daytona 500.As usual I disagree with some for the most part.Nascar continues to make the wrong calls on and off the track.Varying opinions on this topic and that is the way it should be.My opinion says he was going for it and messed up and took out another competitor.For those that say to not be agressive on the last few laps welcome to today's boring ass politically correct Nascar take off the formal wear.Sorry but the sport was built on "rubbing" and agressive racing.Enter the 79 Daytona 500.Enter Big E.Tim Richmond.DW.The beloved Bodines.Now while I don't totally agree with "intentionally" wrecking someone,"going for it" on the last lap is the coolest thing that as a race fan you should want.Naturally,if it was your guy that got taken out you would want the firing squad.And if it was your guy that won,you'd say it was just "racing".And this is the a part of what makes Nascar and it's fans wanna watch next week.Look at how Nascar took a win from Regan Smith last year.He got the shaft.I don't really care if they took the win from Logano.Who cares?It was an allstar race!No points and finishing 2nd is the first looser.You gonna tell me that watching a guy be content to stay behind someone is exciting?If you think Logano will do that in Cup,you are blinded with haterade.I don't like the way he just fell into the 20 either.I also didn't like the OW's taking Cup regular's rides.How did that work out?
Sorry if you disagree,but it is just the way I see it.Be it going to the races or watching it at home,give me something to stand up and hollar about instead of a freaking Wine and Cheese tasting party at the end of a race!That is why truck racing is the best form of racing in all of Nascar.Agree or disagree 09 should be interesting in Nascar........
DJ, the 1979 Daytona 500 was far more than the fight. Indeed, France Junior was horrified that it was the fight getting all the attention instead of all the passing in that race. "We have the best show in sports," he said to SCR in their '79 Daytona issue. "We don't need crashes and fights to sell tickets." You're confusing aggression with thuggery.
"Enter Tim Richmond." Richmond raced people clean for the most part; he screwed up early in his NASCAR career but cleaned up his act by the time he drove for Harry Hyde.
What if:
What if Brian France wasnt running this sport....I can only wonder. What a piece of shit he is.
Brian France runs this sport.
Brian France runs this website.
Brian France runs this blog.
Brian France runs David Poole.
Brian France has no credibility.
Nascar has no crediblity.
David Poole has no credibility.
Brian France is biased toward certain teams.
Nascar is biased toward certain teams.
David Poole is biased toward certain teams.
Brian France is a joke.
Nascar is a joke.
David Poole is a joke.
Brian France,Nascar,and David Poole.The new 3 Stooges.
Where can you find the 2009 schedule on this powder puff web site?
MF....I am not confusing aggresion with thuggary my man.I guess I should have been more definative with you on the 79 500.That whole show was great viewing with good racing and yes there happened to be a wreck at the end with the leaders and a little fight afterwards.Agression is what Hornaday does and seems to get a pass.Thuggarism??Nice word.I'd put that on say Chad Knaus and other CC's that have tried to cheat or have cheated.What you call thuggarism I call good viewing and and keeps an interest for the next race and during that week for soundbites.No,it isn't a direct form of racing,but it is part of the overall show.I love agression on the race track even if I despise the driver.That gets me fired up,because without the aggression and what you call thuggary,the product on the track is more of a snoozefest.......
DJ, aggression is a good thing in racing and sports, but a lot of people are still confusing aggression with thuggery. The Hornaday incident - now I'll have to go back and review the tape, but from my initial viewing it did not seem to be more than borderline at most; certainly it was far less egregious than the absurd slide job Logano pulled at the end.
My idea of aggression on the racetrack is going for the lead - the pass Carl Edwards put on Jimmie Johnson at Kansas last year was aggression - proper aggression; he made the dive-bomb move, but he made it where he could make a clean pass.
Physically pushing another car forward to pass other cars is proper aggression - we saw plenty of that a week later at Talladega. I don't buy the idea that aggressive racing needs wrecks and gratuitous contact.
Has Logano even been approved by NASCAR to run at Daytona yet? Toward the end of last season, the plan was to get him enough cup experience at a variety of tracks (particularly those with some speed, like Atlanta and Texas) to gain their approval.
He competed in only 3 races (New Hampshire, Kansas and Texas), 2 of which were for the #96 team, not the #20. Granted, he completed 98.4% of the laps, but never finished higher than 32nd. Is this enough to be approved for the responsibilities that 3-wide, 185MPH racing at Daytona will bring?
His actions Saturday night show me that the patience and maturity might still be under development.
Logano must learn to "pick his battles"....
But then, so should we all.
"Sir Bread Dough" may be forced to grow up a lot faster than he planned once the Cup season begins.
Joe Gibbs is sending a boy to do a man's job.
Here is another opinion from what the what 'I saw on TV.'
To me it seemed like it wasnt a loss traction and slid up. It looked more like an intentional move up to take out the leader.
Yes its an allstar race. So it should be allstar driving.
Edwards has zero to do with this. Edwards went for a pass and it didnt work. Logano just flat out slid up and took out the leader.
Poole has some good info. Dont understand the hate.
Logano wont be able to pull that stunt in the Cup Series. On the other hand, maybe I won't be able to watch the first fifty laps, fall asleep,watch the last fifty, and miss nothing like last year.
So now we are comparing Edwards and Loganos moves?
The main difference is Edwards did it at Kansas where there is two racing grooves and plenty of room. Logano did it on a racetrack with one main groove at the top and another groove in the middle. You cant make a pass on the bottom and make it stick. Im sorry you just cant.
I guess my question would be if Edwards wrecks Johnson would their be this much hoopla about it? NO because its not the Great One failing to live up to his expectations!
Here is the video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o2P4keDITo
Hey David,
After interviewing him on TMD this morning, is there any question about this mans lack of intellegence?
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