Sunday, January 27, 2008

NASCAR's 'back to basics' should involve significantly more than simply punching numbers on a jukebox

Just what, exactly, does it mean to “go back to basics?”

How, precisely, does NASCAR plan to change to re-connect with its core fans?

Frankly, the preseason talk about that kind of stuff is just a public relations bill of goods. Oddly, that may be all it takes to satisfy some of the sport’s fans who’ve been so vocal with their displeasure.

I was reading a column over the weekend from a guy who said NASCAR has “turned its back” on its core fans in North and South Carolina, Georgia and other fans in the Southeast. He even went so far as to invoke the name of the holy of old-time holies, North Wilkesboro Speedway.

Let me just tell you something. NASCAR ain’t going back to North Wilkesboro. Not now, not ever. That ship has sailed. Rockingham isn’t coming back, either.

NASCAR also isn’t going to abandon the car of tomorrow and bring back “stock” cars. It’s not going to abandon the rule that guarantees the top 35 in points a spot in each week’s race.

Despite all the talk about “loosening up” on letting drivers express themselves, NASCAR also isn’t going to allow people to go around having fistfights or swinging tire irons at each other. (Does anybody even have tire irons anymore? Maybe now it would be sway bars.)

The garage area isn’t a barroom and even if NASCAR tried to look the other way on physical confrontations the very fans who swear they want to see it would make such a big deal out of every such incident the teams and sponsors would immediately put the kibosh on such antics.

Does anybody really think that by putting Dale Jarrett in the booth and moving Rusty Wallace to the studio or running off Brent Musburger and Suzy Kolber, ESPN/ABC is going to “fix” everything that’s “wrong” with stock-car racing?

Certainly no speech at a news conference, by NASCAR chairman Brian France or anyone else, is going to change the economic realities of this sport.

Teams with the most resources and the most good people are always going to be better than teams that have less. Actually, that is going back to basics in one sense because it has not ever or will it ever be any other way. Money buys speed. Period.

Every era has had its dominant teams and those dominant teams were the ones who marshaled the most forces – things like money, equipment, expertise and experience – toward accomplishing that success.

From the sport’s broader perspective, the law of large numbers is going to apply as much going forward as it has in the past. It’s always going to be about selling more tickets and having more people watch on television.

That’s just how you keep score. No matter how many times anybody says it, NASCAR isn’t going to schedule a points race at a dirt track that seats 20,000 people. It’s not going to “ban” Cup drivers from racing in Nationwide races, either, because the big names sell more tickets and draw more fans to television and that’s what pumps the money into that series.

So far, the most significant change I’ve noticed in this “back to the basics” business is that Brooks & Dunn will headline the Daytona 500 prerace show.

Brooks & Dunn have actually been to Nashville once or twice in their lives, and over the past five years or so that would have automatically disqualified them for that job. Anything that keeps Kelly Clarkson away from the race track is fine with me, but punching different buttons on a juke box hardly qualifies as a new direction for a major American sports franchise.

NASCAR officials will spend a lot of time this year talking about how good the competition is. That will be the primary talking point, and to be honest the new season does shape up to have several potentially compelling storylines on the track.

If enough of those play out – if Dale Earnhardt Jr. has a big year, if Toyota emerges as a realistic challenger, if the other manufacturers eat away even somewhat at Chevrolet’s dominance (or, at least, the Hendrick Motorsports dominance), if Juan Pablo Montoya shows that a driver from South America can race with just as much fire and passion as one from South Carolina can – NASCAR could have the kind of year it’s going to need to have.

If that’s what Brian France means about going back to basics, he’s right. If the racing is compelling, if the competition is what everybody wants to talk about each Monday morning, then a lot of the other stuff people seem to get hung up on these days won’t matter nearly as much as it seems they have in recent years.

169 comments:

rer3 said...

The first step to back to basics would be telling Toyota to pack up and go home.

SallyB said...

Your points are precisely what make Brian France's comments so ironic. Shutting the barn door after the horse is out is futile. Changing the start times of 3 more races and booking Brooks and Dunn makes good sound bytes, but changes nothing. Being left with the charity lap, the top 35 rule, IROC kit cars and the crapshoot, the decisions that fundamentally changed the sport into 'racertainment' are still here. And likely not going to go away. I guess, if you believe that the fans are too stupid to realize the difference, then you and Brian France are golden.

Mithril said...

yeah...we should ban everything except cars made in America!...er...wait...would that eliminate Ford and Chevy??

GRUMPYinTEXAS said...

I couldn't agree more! But you and all your media buddies can say "it ain't gonna happen all you want" the majority of the CORE fans want the top 35 gone and will continue to be "hungup" on it forever. Along with the other items you mentioned as well as foreign manufactures and drivers. Get rid of or bring back those things and we will have started to getting "back to basics". We don't want LIP-SERVICE from King Brian, we want action!!!!!

Anonymous said...

1. Get rid of the Chase and havea championship that is earned w/o any help from the NASCAR welfare police.

2. Get rid of the Lucky Dog (freezing the field is fine) and let drivers earn their finish without help from the NASCAR welfare police.

3. Southern 500 on Labor Day.

4. 1 PM start times foe eastern time zone races.


When these things start happening I will start watching again.

nh_nascarfan said...

David, congratulations on another well written article. People can wish all they want about what they would like to see, and on may points I agree, but the truth is you are right, NASCAR is not moving backwards.

Anonymous said...

NASCAR and ISC's greed is what is killing NASCAR. Old man France used to say load up the wagon the MULE is blind.. Well it appears the MULES had Lasik Surgery

Anonymous said...

Just remember it works both ways... NASCAR can refuse to go back and make things the way they were when NASCAR's core fans loved the sport.

Of course those core fans can continue to walk away from the sport and refuse to go back as well.

It's fine with me either way. Ever since NASCAR instituted their championship system I've fallen in love with the NFL. I refuse to watch a Chase race... and I really don't miss it.

I've went from a core fan to a casual fan. Good job Brian!

Anonymous said...

The Chase has killed this sport. Nobody goes to the last 10 races with a calculator to watch the points change every lap. They go to see who wins the race. Period.

BillyDeKid said...

Just like the rest of the media weasels - you offer NO solutions, or suggestions, rather support NASCAR to the hilt.

With your point of view, NASCAR will continue its rapid slide, and NASCAR Chairman Brian France, as clueless as he is, will go down with the ship.

Someone better figure a way to get the "Hollywood" out of NASCAR, and let the dogs out to race.
I want to see Tony Stewart with his right-foot planted on the firewall, driving up the ass of the guy in front of him to win a race. I DO NOT want to see Tony Stewart running 10th to protect a points lead for his possible Championship.

I can afford one race a year at the track, and I want racing.

Mr. Poole, you need to un-pucker for a few minutes and look around. Solutions abound.

Anonymous said...

I agree with comment about the Chase ruining the sport. When I sit down to watch a race I want the entire focus of those 3 1/2 to 4 hours to be that race. Give me updates on all of the drivers throughout and let me forget everything else going on in my life for 4 hours and relax and watch the race.

Instead we get an hour long pre-race show and "if the race ended now" updates non-stop.

Instead of showing me who is 12th in the points how about showing me who is 12th in the race and let me know what problems his team is facing!

Bottom line... the Chase is a perfect name b/c it is chasing fans away from the sport left and right!

David said...

If NASCAR is really serious about "returning to basics"(which they are NOT)then here's a few things to help them get started.
1- Southern 500 on Labor Day
2- Let each team "earn" their way into the field.... NO top 35!!!
3- 1pm starting times for the East coast.
4- Pull one of the Fontana,Ca races(along w/ a few others)and reassign the dates to someplace where people will COME to see it.

Now, that should be good for starters. Are you listening NASCAR???

A fan since 1971!!!

nh_nascarfan said...

BillyDeKid said...
Just like the rest of the media weasels - you offer NO solutions, or suggestions, rather support NASCAR to the hilt.

David is a weasel because he failed to bash NASCAR? Because he laid it out as things really are, as opposed to the way all of you wish they were?

Nice. Real classy. And nice.

BillyDeKid said...
I want to see Tony Stewart with his right-foot planted on the firewall, driving up the ass of the guy in front of him to win a race. I DO NOT want to see Tony Stewart running 10th to protect a points lead for his possible Championship.

Yeah, that NEVER happened under the old points system. No driver EVER tried to protect a lead.

Anonymous said...
The Chase has killed this sport. Nobody goes to the last 10 races with a calculator to watch the points change every lap. They go to see who wins the race. Period.

I get it. Inability to do math. Points never changed lap by lap under the old system. Mathematically, all the chase does is reset the points after 26 races. That's it. When the regular season in other sports ends, everybody's record resets to 0 and 0 as well.

Anonymous said...
Of course those core fans can continue to walk away from the sport and refuse to go back as well.

Then that's what you should do. If enough people do, then they will get the message.

Anonymous said...

I get it. Inability to do math. Points never changed lap by lap under the old system. Mathematically, all the chase does is reset the points after 26 races. That's it. When the regular season in other sports ends, everybody's record resets to 0 and 0 as well.


Wow... I didn't know every team had the same exact schedule against the same exact opponents in other sports.

Also... I must have missed it but can you tell me who Michael Waltrip's team got in the first pick of the 2008 NASCAR draft? you know... since we are so much like other sports.

Listen... if you like the NASCAR welfare system then that's fine. But don't compare it to other sports.

nh_nascarfan said...

Listen... if you like the NASCAR welfare system then that's fine. But don't compare it to other sports.

Nobody said its exactly like other sports; none of the stick and ball sports are the same. Two play on grass, one plays on wood, one plays on ice. One uses a large round ball, one a small hard ball, one a messed up looking ball, and one uses a puck. But the bottom line is they are all SPORT. And all sports rely on TV ratings and ticket sales to drive the economic model. Why do you think there are playoffs in other sports? Gee, does it have anything to do with attendance and ratings being the highest at that point of the season? Would it really be 'fair' if the Patriots lost to the Giants? Is that an NFL welfare system?

Nobody claimed that the Chase was perfect, but in my opinion, it beats the hell out of the alternative - having a champion crowned by the 26th race who will drive as conservatively as possible in order to protect that lead.

Instead of whining about the Chase as opposed to the old system, which was just as broken, come up with something that will address all of the problems that both systems present.

NASCAR isn't going to move backwards, and they aren't going back to the old system.

Anonymous said...

Why do you think there are playoffs in other sports? Gee, does it have anything to do with attendance and ratings being the highest at that point of the season?


Actually made you should look up why the NFL went to a playoff system. It had nothing to do with TV ratings considering the TV wasn't even invented yet. Same with the other sports so nice try.

The old system was fine. There was nothing wrong with it. The driver that deserved to be the champion was the champion. Sounds like sport to me.

Maybe the PGA should reset the scoreboard every Sunday so someone has a chance to beat Tiger.

Of course you are probably one of those people who like the Lucky Dog as well and point to all the drivers on the lead lap to prove how great competition is these days!

Anonymous said...

David's comments actually doesn't go far enough.

I did not renew my tickets for the two Phoenix races due to the France family's need for greed.
Ticket prices have gone through the roof..let alone the cost of travel / hotels/ meals / parking
etc....just to sit in the stands and wait for all the commercials to finish.

I won't miss all the commercials / commercial breaks / commercials during the race / Home Depot sponsorship of the internal workings of a car / late starts to get more east coast viewers (which has backfired).

I won't have to get angry because another boring caution free race suddenly turns into a NASCAR created caution to bunch up the field and allow more commercial time.

Since France / NASCAR want choirboys with professional correctness and boring races with limited side by side racing....he / they can have it....

My large group of ex-NASCAR fans use to have a fantasy league and trade comments about our drivers even during the race....now we mostly check in on ESPN for the 1 minute summary...this allows us to see the same amount of "actual action" which took place during the "race."

NASCAR changed at the expense of the fans and only the France family hasn't figured it out...but the what they should really know is that NASCAR is rapidly becoming "yesterdays" news....they are over...

$1 bet says that television ratings will steadily drop again.
More late afternoon rains should bring more Monday (nobody's watching) races....

I wish someone would start another racing circuit to compete with the pompous jerks at NASCAR!!!!

MArc said...

rer3... well that didn't take long did it Poole first comment out of the box?

"The first step to back to basics would be telling Toyota to pack up and go home."

And why would that be rer3? Explain your position. Please, this outta be good.

MArc said...

sallyb - "Changing the start times of 3 more races and booking Brooks and Dunn makes good sound bytes, but changes nothing. Being left with the charity lap, the top 35 rule, IROC kit cars and the crapshoot,

Well it changes a few start times doesn't it? That's one of the major complaints heard in the last couple years.

As far as Country music acts, who cares, it's not racing so who cares. There are venues that put on things called concerts where they can be seen. Fro people that like such things at the race track fine good for them. Hope they enjoy the new found empahsis on C&W.

Top 35, Poole's right it ain't going away now matter how many fans kick and scream.

Given the number of teams attempting to qualify they could increase field size by to 44. I never understood why the cutoff was at 43 that left an open sport in the last row but it's been that way forever.

Anonymous said...

I am all for putting the Southern 500 back on Labor Day, and I've said and written that for years.

The Chase is every bit as "fair" of a way to pick a champion as any other system. (Remember, the New York Giants are in the Super Bowl and they finished second in their own division this year.)

And please don't tell me people didn't count points in the old system, because I was there and know they did.

The top 35 rule is a fact of life, and when I see somebody form a "privateer" NFL team and just show up and still get a right to play the Patriots then I might see how people can consider it heinous.

There's not a dime's worth of difference between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m. starts as long as they're consistent.

And finally, I seriously have asked this question of people who tell me that NASCAR has "ruled" all the color out of the sport. Can anybody tell me the last time a driver had points deducted for an on-track bumping incident while they were racing? Not a retaliation under yellow. Not a post-race nudge. Not something on pit road. When was the last time a guy got points taken away for roughing another guy up? -- David Poole

MArc said...

anon - "It's fine with me either way. Ever since NASCAR instituted their championship system I've fallen in love with the NFL. I refuse to watch a Chase race... and I really don't miss it."

Question anon... what was better... having the championship decided with a couple and in some cases several events left in the season and NASCAR along with it's drivers just playing out the string until Nov.

Glad you have found a new lover. One that has "playoff," more dictatorial rules over it's players and owners than NASCAR is some ways (WHAT you wanna ware what kinda socks on the sidelines!) and last but certainly not least more felons, wife beaters/girlfriend abusers and drig abuses than NASCAR has had in the last 30 years, give or take.

Or having 10 events left with ten drivers with legit shots at winning the crown?

MArc said...

anon - "The Chase has killed this sport. Nobody goes to the last 10 races with a calculator to watch the points change every lap. They go to see who wins the race. Period."

Whether it's "killed" the sport is up for debate, however how has the Chase prevented people from still watching to see who wins the race during it?

Anonymous said...

I gotta an idea. Let's give Phil Mickelson 10 strokes today and if he beate Tiger we will say it's fair!

WELFARE SYSTEM!

Anonymous said...

Or having 10 events left with ten drivers with legit shots at winning the crown?


Actually it's 12. Gotta make sure all the stars benefit from welfare

MArc said...

billydekid - "Just like the rest of the media weasels - you offer NO solutions, or suggestions, rather support NASCAR to the hilt."

You didn't offer mush yourself, lets review:

"I want to see Tony Stewart with his right-foot planted on the firewall, driving up the ass of the guy in front of him to win a race. I DO NOT want to see Tony Stewart running 10th to protect a points lead for his possible Championship.

Everyone wants to see that I suspect. But when in anytime during NASCAR's long and storied history has "stroking it" by points leaders not happened?

If you believe otherwise your not paying attention.

And BTW, since when is it a reporters job to offer suggestions? They certainly can, and some do, but last I heard and read it's not part of their job description.

Anonymous said...

Once agains David shows he is completely out of touch with the fans.

And we wonder why the sport is going downhill?

Anonymous said...

This guy beat ya to the punch David
http://onelugnutshort.blogspot.com/2008/01/back-to-their-roots.html

MArc said...

anon - "Actually made you should look up why the NFL went to a playoff system. It had nothing to do with TV ratings considering the TV wasn't even invented yet. Same with the other sports so nice try.

Yeah it was a nice try. And so was trying to make people believe TV "wasn't invented yet" when the MLB instituted the playoff system.

And truth be told your far off the mark as it relates to the NFL as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't TV invented prior to 1967?

What was that phrase you used? Oh yeah... nice try.

Anonymous said...

Yeah it was a nice try. And so was trying to make people believe TV "wasn't invented yet" when the MLB instituted the playoff system.

And truth be told your far off the mark as it relates to the NFL as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't TV invented prior to 1967?

What was that phrase you used? Oh yeah... nice try.


Oh my god. It's hard to believe people are this stupid. The NFL playoffs began in 1932. You know... they did have the NFL playoffs before they labeled it the Super Bowl. And the MLB playoffs started in the 1800's. I'm sure they were worried about ratings then.

What a tool.

Anonymous said...

This guy beat ya to the punch David
http://onelugnutshort.blogspot.com/2008/01/back-to-their-roots.html

nh_nascarfan said...

Anonymous said...
This guy beat ya to the punch David
http://onelugnutshort.blogspot.com/2008/01/back-to-their-roots.html

Thanks for the link - well written, and certainly great food for thought!

frenchboy708 said...

No. What has killed this sport more than anything are the drivers. When I started watching NASCAR as a six year old in 1987, there were guys like Petty, Earnhardt, Allison, Waltrip...guys that had intricate stories of getting their starts in the sport by sweeping floors or hangin' bodies. Guys that had to pay their dues and work their way up to achieve an ounce of success in the sport. I remember when Alan Kulwicki won the championship in 1992, how it might be one of the most incredible rags to riches story I've ever seen. A guy coming from Wisconsin with a small trailer and teetering near bankruptcy to becoming a Winston Cup Champion in seven years. Jeff Gordon's arrival in 1993 changed everything for the sport- Gordon was barely old enough to drink and landed a multi-million dollar deal w/Hendrick and achieved a huge level of success...teams have adopted the young gun model ever since, signing these guys to developmental contracts when they're 15 years old! Gimme a break! NASCAR has alienated it's fan base, because we can't identify with this pimple-faced jerks who came into the sport with a silver spoon in their mouth and have proven NOTHING. I've often asked myself, will I keep watching when Mark Martin retires? Dale Jr. might keep me watching, but the Reed Sorenson's and David Ragan's of the world might ultimately drive me away. At least until the next Kulwicki comes into the sport. But I'm afraid those days are gone forever. Such a shame.

MArc said...

anon - "And finally, I seriously have asked this question of people who tell me that NASCAR has "ruled" all the color out of the sport. Can anybody tell me the last time a driver had points deducted for an on-track bumping incident while they were racing?"

Not exactly the same (points weren't taken) but they are similar

"May 28, 1997) -- NASCAR officials announced a
$2,000 fine has been levied against NASCAR Winston Cup regular Terry
Labonte following Saturday's CARQUEST Auto Parts 300, NASCAR Busch Series race at Charlotte Motor Speedway."

The penalty was a result of on-track rough driving following
Saturday's race. The incident was deemed in violation of section 12,
Rule 4, Article A in the NASCAR Busch Series, Grand National Division
Rule Book; Actions detrimental to automobile racing.


This one is exactly what you are looking for, Pocono 2006:

"Lap 31 -- YELLOW FLAG: Carl Edwards and Clint Bowyer crash on the frontstretch in front of the start/finish line. Tony Stewart drove into Clint Bowyer coming off Turn 3, and Bowyer went spinning and collected Edwards."

Lap 34 -- Tony Stewart is black-flagged by NASCAR for rough driving. Kyle Busch is too fast exiting pit road and will start at the end of the longest line.

Lap 35 -- Tony Stewart makes his trip down pit road for a one-lap penalty. His team works on the left side of the car to check for any damage.


That aside... what fans of NASCAR dismiss out of hand is the sport is NO different than the NFL, NHL or the MLB they have all reigned in their players to one extent of another.

The reality is it's a societal problem that manifests itself in many walks of life not just NASCAR.

jeff said...

Even though i'm not a big fan of JJ. I'm glad to see the guy who won the most races is the champion. Isn't that how it is supposed to be? Winning is everything, period. And the guy who won the next most races finished second. 2007 worked out the way it should have. If you missed it do too watching the Notorius Felons League, too bad so sad.

MArc said...

anon - "Oh my god. It's hard to believe people are this stupid. The NFL playoffs began in 1932. You know... they did have the NFL playoffs before they labeled it the Super Bowl. And the MLB playoffs started in the 1800's. I'm sure they were worried about ratings then.

Speaking of "tools" you failed to use yours, the one that reside within your craniaum.

From the link provided. (Did you even READ IT?)

Playoff game 1931, held because the Chicago Bears (6-1-6) and the Portsmouth Spartans (6-1-4) were tied at the end of the season.

1933 the NFL divided teh league into two divisions, "Without a tie-breaker system yet in place, any ties in the final standings resulted in a playoff game, which delayed the NFL Championship game a week. This last occurred in 1965, when the Colts and Packers met to determine the Western conference champion."

That's NOT league playoffs no matter HOW YOU wanna spin it.

"For the 1967 NFL season, the NFL expanded to 16 teams, adding the Saints. For the last three seasons before the 1970 AFL-NFL Merger, the NFL split its two conferences into two divisions each, with four teams in each division. The four division champions would advance to the NFL playoffs, and to remain on schedule, a tie-breaker system was introduced."

Reading is a wonderful thing! And so is using the TOOL you were born with.

Anonymous said...

"back to basics" I'm still having trouble understanding what that is. NASCAR wants more side-by-side racing and they think the new car is going to produce this! Let the teams have more track time. With testing limited, tires controlled, gears/shocks/ specified, how are smaller teams supposed to learn what these beasts need to run with the big dogs. I know $$$'s, but if they can afford to field a car, they have to expect to spend money.

Give the TV crowd something other than the top five cars to watch. Not just a "Chase" issue, do it all season long.

Take the Yellow Flag switch out of the exec's booth and put in only in the hands of the race officials. A piece of duct tape on the appron is hardly reason to slow the race......even if the leaders are running away from the rest of the field.

And lastly, stop all the "official this and that of NASCAR" contracts at the corporate level and allow sponsors to support a team if they wish. The first company to the party should not be able to decide who gets to drink the cool-aid.

MArc said...

frenchboy - "For the 1967 NFL season, the NFL expanded to 16 teams, adding the Saints. For the last three seasons before the 1970 AFL-NFL Merger, the NFL split its two conferences into two divisions each, with four teams in each division. The four division champions would advance to the NFL playoffs, and to remain on schedule, a tie-breaker system was introduced.

And those that didn't fit you 1987 mold, like Ron Bouchard and A.J. Foyt that competed that year?

Did A.J. "pay his dues" or was he handed a NASCAR ride because he had success in other forms very much like some in todays starting line-ups?

Jeff Gordon's arrival in 1993 changed everything for the sport- Gordon was barely old enough to drink and landed a multi-million dollar deal w/Hendrick and achieved a huge level of success...teams have adopted the young gun model ever since, signing these guys to developmental contracts when they're 15 years old!

There little dispute Gordon changed things in NASCAR.

However, are you attempting to say a driver that won USAC's Midget Car Racing Rookie of the Year and the series championship the following, then the youngest USAC Silver Crown title holder didn't "pay his dues?"

Sorry guy that just doen't fly.

On the young development drivers... its a new time. A time when drivers grow into the sport at very young ages. Gordon is an example, he started in quarter midgets at age five and his story is very typical of not only NASCAR but sport car drivers and those in F1.

Yesterday's drivers maybe, maybe sat on Papa's lap to tool down the country road at that age but they NEVER came close to a race car at very young ages.

Anonymous said...

When the winners of two divisions. leagues, etc. meet in a championship game that is a playoff you moron.

Of course you probably think it's still the regular season

Anonymous said...

Okay... I'm out of here. Spent way too much time talking about something that is never going to be like it used to be.

The only thing that brings the passion out of me anymore is arguing about how it was ruined.

rer3 said...

And why would that be rer3? Explain your position. Please, this outta be good.

Well Marc, I grew up watching Chevy vs Ford vs Chrysler. It is what I prefer because it was all American. NASCAR was the only all American sport in America. Never mind all the mergers, global expansion ect. I own 2 Chevys, a Ford and a Scion built by Toyota. I don't want to see it race in NASCAR. A Toyota bodied Funny Car in the NHRA doesn't bother me because I know the engine is a derivative of the Hemi. Toyota will ruin this sport just like it did other series with excessive spending. And as I predicted last year, the influx of foreign drivers as happened. I don't care for it. After seeing your other posts I realize we are dealing with a 'better than you' individual. Well as we say in the South, 'you ain't'.

Boomer said...

Back to Basics? HA ! ! !
For that matter, why not bring back the bias ply tire, or the "run whatya brung" philosophy. While we are at it, shove a bag of Red Man into each driver's pocket. NASCAR is a pile of money at the end of every rainbow. Toyota coming in is just the start. What till you see a Mercedes out there, or even an (ouch) Audi! Realistically, that may be a stretch, but NASCAR is a huge pie growing every day. They no longer cater to the simple southeastern lifestyle. No longer are we watching the likes of heroes like Richard Petty, Cale Yarborough, and Bobby Allison. No more will we see the likes of a Curtis Turner, or a Fireball Roberts. NASCAR will go international. In their wake they leave places like Wilkesboro and Rockingham in their dust, pushing the envelope daily in their quest to squeeze every living breathing human into every space imaginable at big tracks.

All those things are just a memory. Kind of like 45 records!

Monkeesfan said...

Here is where MASCAR has to "get back to basics" -


1 - Abort the COT. Sorry David, but eventually NASCAR will have no choice but to drop this car because it can never succeed.

2 - Go back to the "old" design - long nose, flush airdam, chopped roofline. That design works; the COT can't.

3 - Use the roof spoiler - there's your aeropush cure and it's from an inexpensive bolt-on piece.

4 - Use a 7.5-inch rear spoiler with lip on top. Downforce is always good.

5 - Go back to the 2001-2 tire compound that didn't need as many tire changes as today and which made drivers have to speed up to go faster instead of slow down to go faster. You had 26 winners among 14 teams with that tire package.

6 - Restrict the horsepower - the sport doesn't need more than 450 and you improve safety with lower power and speeds.

7 - Instead of letting the drivers "speak freely" or "display their true personality," make them act like professionals. Alan Kulwicki yes, Tony Stewart no. No more donut laps; you run one victory lap and go immediately to victory lane. And if Ashley Judd starts speaking out, fine her out of the garage area.

8 - "Money buys speed." So crack down on the money - put in a spending cap and inter-team revenue sharing. It is always in a sport's best interest for teams to share revenue with each other.

9 - Put in a hard immediate car cap. Force Hendrick, Roush, etc. to disband one or more teams down to three and force them to give up the engine lease deals and instead work to get other teams able to build their own engines.

10 - Downplay the F1 rejects. The sport needs a driver from South Carolina more than it needs Juan Montoya or Jerk Villeneuve.

11 - Lead changes, lead changes, lead changes. Without it the competition isn't there.

Monkeesfan said...

Marc, A.J. Foyt raced stock cars from his earliest days in racing. And Gordon didn't pay his dues because he was handed the best racecars and engineering in the sport as a rookie.

Anonymous said...

I love NASCAR races! I watch them every Sunday, and only on Sundays! North Wilkesboro and Rockingham are still two of my favorite tracks. I have enough races on DVD from 1985 to 1995 to last me for the entire 2008 season. Yeah, I'm one of the few hard core fans that can't stand to watch, or stay up late enough to care anymore. Maybe someone could make a video for sale on ESPN "And, The Fans Walked Away!" Brian France is young, and eager to do everything his daddy always said no to. One day, maybe he'll wish he had paid more attention. Keep up the good work Mr. Poole. I just love science fiction!

MArc said...

rer3 - Well Marc, I grew up watching Chevy vs Ford vs Chrysler. It is what I prefer because it was all American. NASCAR was the only all American sport in America.

And so... so did I. But I must add as a rebuttal, or rather an answer to my question, you start out with one foot in a hole.

NASCAR is the ONLY American sport?

What does that make Baseball that was started in a cow pasture in Cooperstown, New York by Abner Doubleday?

What does that make basketball? Dr. James Naismith is best known world wide as the inventor of basketball. That occurred in Springfield, Mass.

Are those two sports "UnAmerican?"

"After seeing your other posts I realize we are dealing with a 'better than you' individual. Well as we say in the South, 'you ain't'.

Well sorry to hear you feel that way, even though it's far from the truth. But one thing is for sure... when it comes to knowledge of what sports are truly American I have you beat hands down.

Tao said...

Truthfully the same people who complain about this and that are the same people who would not pay the money to see the races. The people who complain are the ones who wouldn't do anything to help the support, they just want to whine about it.

Honestly, what is wrong with a top 35 rule? I still don't know why folks are upset. I don't want to hear "It's ruining the sport." That's just a line you use when you have no reason other than to bitch and moan about something. Same as the Chase. What exactly is wrong with it? Because the teams that were good all year long get to race each other the last 10 weeks? It's not like John Andretti or Kyle Petty are suddenly going to start racing so well the last 10 weeks of the race season that they might actually beat those in the top 10-12. Get real. Oh, and lucky dog? Gee, I want to know how that's ruining anything. From the time it was implemented the teams who fell victim to it early either keep falling victim to it or they get better and prove they deserved that chance.

The truth is, the electronic age we live in is hurting the sport. People want to think the "new" Nascar is what is causing the ratings decline. But I've read several times that Nascar is not the only professional sport who has been losing out in the ratings game. And the times the tracks aren't full up? Usually one or two tracks this season and the sky is falling.

I'm sick of these, "I was here first, I deserve more." so-called fans telling everyone and Nascar what they should be doing. Now, I'm all for earlier start times (It didn't bother me, what else have I got to do on Sunday?) because races plagued by rain with no lights suffered. But bitching and moaning constantly about this and that is tiresome. This is why the media is tired of it. This sport isn't your local short track. It's grown into a huge sporting event. If you want grass roots, go to your local dirt track. And let Nascar be what it was meant to be. A sport America can love and not just southern hicks who they think own it!

MArc said...

monkeesfan - "Marc, A.J. Foyt raced stock cars from his earliest days in racing. And Gordon didn't pay his dues because he was handed the best racecars and engineering in the sport as a rookie."

So what's your definition of "earliest days?" The firs 2-5 years of active competition?

If so your out to lunch as usual.

His racing career started in 1956 in the Night before the 500 midget event.

He didn't make his first NASCAR start until the 1964. Prior to that he ran a USAC stock car in 1963 and placed second in the season championship.

He was an 8 year racing vet before moving into stock cars. If you think he ran earlier than that, show me, I'll gladly stand corrected. (unlike you)

nh_nascarfan said...

I'm sick of these, "I was here first, I deserve more." so-called fans telling everyone and Nascar what they should be doing. Now, I'm all for earlier start times (It didn't bother me, what else have I got to do on Sunday?) because races plagued by rain with no lights suffered. But bitching and moaning constantly about this and that is tiresome. This is why the media is tired of it. This sport isn't your local short track. It's grown into a huge sporting event. If you want grass roots, go to your local dirt track. And let Nascar be what it was meant to be. A sport America can love and not just southern hicks who they think own it!

BRAVO BRAVO! Thats the smartest thing said all day!

Letsbereal said...

All of this just proves that America is in a bad bad way. We the people don't own much. Face it people there are very few "American" companies at all.

Nascar is just trying to survive. Yeah Brian France makes a lot of money yet not compared to all the other sports.

Unfortunately its about sponsorship with more and more owners unable to compete with the haves we will either see the beginning of a IRL type deal down from 43 to 35 so those who are concerned about Nascar Welfare dont worry. The way the sponsors are leaving the sport and with companies laying off its employees its not easy to cough up 10-25 million a year while they are laying off your brothers and sisters to become a sponsor.

What they need to bring back is the excitement of racing and drivers who race hard each and every lap. Need to see more hungry racers who are able to talk about it. Excited races and close racing and competition. If they need to shorten the races for less commercials so be it.

What some seems to want is a simplier time where we had a strong America with American companies who where strong manufacturers with strong American dollars. Those days are gone it is a global economy and if you want to see Nascar continue its going to be with less teams or it might come down to pay per view or foreign investors cause lets face it most American companies are in deep trouble and are unwilling or unable to invest in Nascar long term.

Sprint has 6 more years and they by all accounts cannot afford to continue that is the reality. Winston might have been great for the sport in turns of dollars yet their cigarettes were killing people.

North Wilksboro and Rockingham come on people if you were not able to support them with tickets how can you complain? I doubt they got 2,000 people in the standing on the last race. If the owners of the track cared about the sport or the people they would have kept it up.

I say keep Mothers Day at Darlington too many of the fans took these tracks for granted and did not support it. If you care for it support it. Be honest Labor Day was hotter than hell that was why California had the same issue.

Anonymous said...

Just kill the "Welfare Police" in NASCAR, Government, and everywhere else.

"I Want My Mommy! Hillary 2008!"

Anonymous said...

I used to really like reading Mr. Poole's comments. He was one of the few racing writers that seemed to understand the sport and gave us mere fans an honest perspective on what was really going on in NASCAR.

After reading his most recent comments regarding the direction of the sport and the apparent dissatisfaction many of its core fans have with that direction, I'm afraid he's sold himself out as nothing more than a shill for NASCAR. I really hope that I'm wrong on that.

Yes, he's probably right that NASCAR will not reverse its current direction: sticking the sport with many things that are unpopular with the fans. I agree with him there.

But repeatedly intimating to us core fans that we need to get over it and love the sport for what it is through his blog comments sounds to me like Mr. Poole has lost the perspective I once admired about him.

David, we hear what you are saying and we understand.

We just don't agree with you or NASCAR or any number of people who recently keep repeating that the problems aren't really problems and the direction NASCAR is heading is just fine and dandy.

I don't buy it. And apparently a lot of other people aren't buying it either. We aren't satisfied with the racing NASCAR is giving us and no amount of excuses will change that.

So enough with the excuses. Let's talk about addressing the issues that many of the fans here have identified already. What is it that makes fans so upset with the racing we have now? How about we start finding solutions to those issues, like many here have already suggested?

How about using your blog to send a message to the folks at NASCAR, not the message that everything is just fine, but that the fans are not happy with their sport and they'd like to see some changes. Perhaps the changes that have been suggested here.

NASCAR is too big for any individual fan or even a group of fans to get an audience with in order to hear our voices. NASCAR doesn't seem to be listening to us, but your blog could get their attention.

So instead of repeating the NASCAR rhetoric to us, how about you help us send a message to NASCAR? One that tells NASCAR that things are not fine and dandy and we have some solutions to offer.

Don't you think that's a better idea than trying to convince us core fans that we just need to "get it"?

Anonymous said...

David, good points. And I agree with you about the newspaper column you read over the weekend.

I read it today and it was ridiculous. The worst kind of xenophobic pandering to an audience I'd seen in a little while (not to mention mistakes: Scott Dixon and Dan Wheldon are not coming to NASCAR; George Gillett is American, not Canadian, though Canada is where his business interests lie. He's from Wisconsin and lives in Colorado. There's also no "e" at the end of Gillett.)

My initial impulse was to send him an email but decided against it. He's going to spout what he thinks works. Sad that is his re-entry to covering the sport.

joe said...

1: Start races at 1:00 pm.
2: Bulldoze Fontana, Chicago, Kansas and Indy.
3: Southern 500 back to Labor Day.
4: All races televised on FOX.
5: Final race of the year at Daytona.

rer3 said...

Oh Marc, maybe I need to type slower so you will understand...baseball is made up of latin players now, that is not a knock on them. The are great players. Watching Pedro Martinez and Manny, big Pappi is fine but give me a Micky, Roger ect. That is my preference. Not racial, just like to watch American. Baseball and basketball all started as American but now have an international flavor that has changed the game. For you to think you are so much more informed than me or others proves my earlier point.

elfiero said...

Would somebody please explain how getting rid of Toyota is going to "solve" cashcar- I mean Nascars problems? I mean we finally get someone new in here after about 40 years and the "real fans" want to run'em outta town on a rail! Geez!

Anonymous said...

Please no more Fox..no more boggity boogity,, no more hollywood hotel,, no more right wing political nonsense.. I want to watch a race and not be Bombarded with all the nonsense.. I hate the freaking chase..And Please There should be racing in Darlington on Labor day weekend,Not crappy Fontana. Now that Darlington has lights they can run at night.. The other big killer was when they started making in car camera stuff available for an extra fee. Greed is bad and thats what the France's are guilty of .

lady6 said...

The old [poops] as i call them. get together and they can all go home and sat on their back side. Stop stop 35, case, the lucky dog.{Gee} old brainand old mike and the rest have just went crazy. Nascar is not nascar any more. and the only reason i still watch is MARK MARTIN. AND THATS THE ONLY REASON. THE OLD POOPS HAVE LOST THEIR MINDS.

Anonymous said...

They lost me as a fan. I gave it a shot for 4 years....in the end I found it to be more like wrestling in the 70's than the NFL in the year 2007. The drives other than a select few are so fake. The announcers who can't speak english...and the tattoo crowd. If thats what they want to go back to...and they do...watch the dollars dry up fast.

Carolyn 20 Fan said...

David I read your blogs because you write with some intelligence and knowledge, which I respect, of the sport. You will never make some of these jokers - they will complain of everything and everyone unless it is their driver or outcome they want. I think that their are some things that could change, but your talking about a megasport that has grown because of its popularity to all people. What is the big deal about toyota coming in - if they are able, they may beat the Chevys. So what! I bought my tickets for Dover and Richmond, and when I get tired of changes I will move on. Get a life people, when Tony retires - I probably will too!

Gofaster said...

I agree with you David although I do miss the NASCAR of yesteryear. I do wish there were more makes (Nissan, Mazda, Volkswagen, Cadillac) in the series. After all, there are no true american makes anymore. The Australian V8 Supercars put on a better show than NASCAR as does the German DTM Series.

MArc said...

rer3 - "Oh Marc, maybe I need to type slower so you will understand...baseball is made up of latin players now, that is not a knock on them."

No, your typing speed is just fine. But the use of overblown and inconcise rhetoric lends itself to being called on it.

Question: When you grew up, did you also dislike the fact that, OMG, a Canadian (Earl Ross) won Rookie of the year in 1974?

Or perhaps you also didn't care for the foreign born Mario Andretti winning in NASCAR?

If not your consistency is somewhat lacking.

MArc said...

anon - "The other big killer was when they started making in car camera stuff available for an extra fee. Greed is bad and thats what the France's are guilty of."

Funny, my TV doesn't have a coin slot to pay for in car camera shots but I still get them on each and every broadcast.

The reality is your complaining about something that is OPTIONAL, not required.

Think it's too high a price to pay for what's offered. Don't, you still have it available to you free and normally about 6 to 8 different drivers.

rer3 said...

Marc your are too thick to understand. Mario was not liked back then because he swept in from USAC and won the biggest race NASCAR had and then went back to USAC. Yeah he was born in Italy and lived there until he and Aldo were about 15. But that is not the point nor is a single Canadian winning ROY. Why didn't you mention Trevor Boys? I guarantee more people heard of him.

bullj21 said...

france nascar is just were he wants it to be.he has made it to be just as it is.all this back to basic is nothing more than blowing hot air in the wind.when it's over he will still have his money and we as fans will be the loosers.all those owners who stand and let this happen are to blame too.they have the means to go their own way and build a real racing nascar.

Anonymous said...

hey, just start watching AMLS. great racing. more technical races. no france family.

Anonymous said...

ok Mark Before the 2000 tv contract the in car camera coverage from an individual car would last more than one turn. They have to cut it back now because of direct tv. Sorry money bags but I already give my cable company 100 bucks a month.. I will not pay for enhanced coverage that is marginal at best.

Anonymous said...

Funny, before 2000, 90% of Nascar racing was televised only on cable or satellite TV. You paid for it then, but I guess that is different?

At least today, the must of the race coverage is on free network TV.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
David, good points. And I agree with you about the newspaper column you read over the weekend.

I read it today and it was ridiculous. The worst kind of xenophobic pandering to an audience I'd seen in a little while (not to mention mistakes: Scott Dixon and Dan Wheldon are not coming to NASCAR; George Gillett is American, not Canadian, though Canada is where his business interests lie. He's from Wisconsin and lives in Colorado. There's also no "e" at the end of Gillett.)

My initial impulse was to send him an email but decided against it. He's going to spout what he thinks works. Sad that is his re-entry to covering the sport.

1/27/2008 4:47 PM

You guys are dancing around it, so I'll say it. It was Ed Hardin who wrote that column today. It was poorly written and riddled with errors, so I can't take his thoughts seriously.

Anonymous said...

Let me clarify a couple of things. My point in this blog was NOT to say the fans who're complaining about things are all wrong.

I think a lot of the complaints are misguided, especially about the Chase, the top 35 rule and this idea that "foreign" drivers are keeping Americans from getting rides. But all of those are opinions and fans certainly have a right not to agree with those.

I do absolutely reject the idea that a fan in North Carolina or anywhere else in the South has more of a "right" to be a NASCAR fan than a guy in Montana or New Mexico. And I think it just makes no sense if you're NASCAR to want to expand your base beyond a certain region. You might not like how they do it, but the concept is only logical.

My point in this blog was to point that despite what it's saying, I have yet to see any actual specifics about what it means to get back to basics. Despite the list provided by MonkeesFan, the sport isn't going to back up in time. That is just not going to happen. They very well might put a wicker across the top of the COT to slow it down (and I think they absolutely should). But bias ply tires? Come on. The bodies are never going to look like they did in 1972 again. Period.

And one thing about the poster who said Jeff Gordon changed everything and that he was "handed" a ride in 1993 and all of that. Even if every word you say is true, doesn't it appear to you by now that the decision to "hand" him all of that has paid off handsomely? I mean, the guy has won four championships and passed the Icon himself on the victory list last year. It's not like he let this opportunity he was "handed" go to waste, is it? -- DAVID POOLE

MArc said...

bullj21 - "all those owners who stand and let this happen are to blame too.they have the means to go their own way and build a real racing nascar."

Ok, say they do. Where will they race the cars?

ARCA? If you think for a hot second, even with all the owners combined, they have the wherewithal to compete with NASCAR your living somewhere within lalaland.

Anonymous said...

marc, please take a break. there is always one like you on every forum/board that can't simply make a statement and leave. This is a blog comment section, not a place to argue a point.

MArc said...

rer3 - "Marc your are too thick to understand."

Oh I understand perfectly. If it's not American, you don't like it. Plain. Simple.

Get over it. Or give it up altogether.

May I suggest the "all-American" sport of drag racing and the NHRA?

Oops, nevermind it's been "tainted" by Top Fuel driver and Australian Dave Grubnic. Sorry, cross that one off your list of possibles.

Guess that only leaves the PFL, I don't think there are any of them damnable ferineers in it.

MArc said...

anon - "ok Mark Before the 2000 tv contract the in car camera coverage from an individual car would last more than one turn. They have to cut it back now because of direct tv."

They cut it back because of direct TV? .

Sorry guy that has zero bearing on in car camera shots provided free during ABC over the air free broadcast nor any extra cash layout added to your cable bill.

And ESPN and FOX have zero to do with Direct TV

MArc said...

anon - "marc, please take a break. there is always one like you on every forum/board that can't simply make a statement and leave. This is a blog comment section, not a place to argue a point."

If you hold that belief you have a near zero understanding what a blog is or what it can be used for.

Blog: This is a web log or online diary hosted on specific sites such as www.blogger.com. It offers readers the opportunity to reply to opinions and link to their own blogs.

Blog: “the ability for readers to leave comments in an interactive format is an important part of many blogs.”

From Techcrunch: (one of the leading online tech sites)

"I believe a blog is a conversation. People go to blogs to read AND write, not just consume. We’ve allowed comments here on TechCrunch since it started. At times, user comments can be painful to deal with. But they also keep the writer honest, and make the content vastly more interesting."

Have a clear understanding now?

You're welcome!

DJ said...

I had a long post about what I thought about your blog and the couple of three that would argue with the big man himself on what they think is the deal.But I chose a smaller draft......

Good that you stated you didn't say us "whiners" and complainers were wrong,because from what Iv'e seen lately from you I would have to say you put us down for having an opinion about the product we see each and very week.If we don't agree with what you feel with a hollier than thou approach,that our thoughts are not worthy.You and these 2 "know it alls" Marc and NH fan as they sit by in small chairs on each side of your big chair and crown that you wear.My gosh,if it isn't what ya'll 3 believe then it is wrong to post on your blog according to these 2.I may have to add a few I see.

Botttom line....We got alot of people that hate the product that is on the track and on TV.You can say as you do that ONE complaint won't fix things...but dang....all of them are the reason why the TV ratings are down and the empty seats are present at MORE than 1-2 tracks.

I am a true fan,hard core if you will...To the,well person that posted crap about the Rock and Wilksboro...To me the fans are not going to support a race that it is 40 degrees each time you go to the track.The Upgrades happened @ the Rock and it was a good track.Bruton and his peeps wanted a race in Cali.He owned the track.Nascar wouldn't give us a better date say in April.Bottom line the track was liked by the drivers and fans,just the weather was crap.They could have swapped dates with say Phoniex and the peeps would attend.

The dude posting about the South and rednecks and whatever....I'm sure plenty of peeps all across the US agree that all the BS that has happened in the last 2 years with Nascar has nothng to do with us Southener's...It has to do with the product on the track and all the BS we complain about.

To whoever that was bumping his gums about us " whiners and complainers"(as they hide behind a pc)......What we see is what is reality.This is a racing blog.I missed the footnote stating that we had to have a law degree to post.That goes for stat and quote boys and you know who you are....

I "support" Nascar.I go to 4 races and watch each week I can.Both days and the best racing,the Trucks.I have a valid opinion and right to complain just as those that might be less fortunate and can't go to races.Big freaking deal dude.A post is an opinion and if they can type they can post.

It just seems like you and a few others think that if we complain about ONE thing like the Chase or whatever we are shallow and dumb.Dudes,we complain about the TOP 35,The COT,The Chase,The robot mentality of the drivers,The Crappy TV coverage and blowhards,The late starts and the lists go on.....Why the freak don't ya'll get it??It is not us fans that are the problem.The TV ratings and empty seats are the results of all these things,plus the costs to go to a race.That's it....No stats,no quotes boys,no need to compare other "stick and ball"(what is that?) sports to Nascar.This is a racing blog with racing issues and thoughts.By mostly real fans with valid points on why Nascar is not as good a product as it once was.....You few that disagree and try to degrade us normal people and disect each posts...get a life.

Here is a trophy for an attempt to make us regular fans that still try to like the sport hate it even more....it is so small you can't see it!Dang,ended up being a long post,but from what Iv'e seen lately on this blog had to get it all out...

ALLFORDSUK said...

Lets see..Hummmm..Old days GONE, Old school racers GONE, Old HARD
CORE FANS LEAVING (fast)..or GONE.
Lets see..Hummmm..New days here,New school racers spoiled,(DON'T TOUCH ME, HE SPUN ME FOR NO REASON, THE CAR JUST WILL NOT GO,THE TIRES ARE TO HARD, THE MOTOR DEPT..bla,bla,bla..
Lets face it (most) ALL the drivers are spoiled, rich, pampered so called profesionals.
(Why did they CRY so hard when they had to drive NASCAR's savior COT)THEY HAD TO ACTUALLY DRIVE AND WORK TO EARN THE $$$!!
They got in because they were born with a silver spoon or knew somebody with $$$ or Daddy owned some company..
I've had it with NASCASH and all of the whinning. I gave up 25yr tix to fall Bristol and am gone. I here the giant SUCKING sound as Nascash go down the drain ! And I hate it ! Youngsters, Hope you enjoy....

joewhite88 said...

O.K. Everybody calm down a minute. Here is why Toyota has no place in NASCAR. Nascar more than any other sport is about TRADITION. Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge have tradition. Nascar races are run with rear wheel drive V8 cars. Has Toyota ever built a rear wheel drive V8 car? Not a Truck but a car? I do not think so. I am fully aware that the Ford Fusion and the Chevy Impala are front wheel drive and that only the Impala SS has a V8, but have you driven either on them? I have and they are far more fun to drive than the Toyota Camry, and YES I have driven it too!! And don't even get me started on the Dodge Charger. That car is a beast. It is not a car to love but to lust for!! I also think we need the traditional labor day Southern 500 at Darlington. That old track makes for great racing and great finishes, not this cookie cutter garbage like at Chicago Land and Vegas. I do not like the top 35 rule but I do support the old provisionals. With the Nascar points system no one can miss a race and still win the Championship, well they could'nt before the chase. The Chase is not working and neither is the lucky dog. I agree that bringing back Brooks and Dunn won't fix Nascar but it was not Rock and Roll that messed up Nascar it was Brian France and all the cutsie "inovations". Lets race on the old tracks with earlier starting times, no chase and NO Toyotas.

Monkeesfan said...

Marc, Foyt raced short track stockers as well as midgets and sprints before that, and he raced USAC's stock car tour regularly as well as periodic NASCAR events.

nh_nascarfan, what the sport has become is not what it is supposed to be. That is what you and Brian France seem so grossly in denial about.

It is not supposed to be about Toyota, F1 reject drivers, belittlement of the sport's real demographics and imposition of the sport upon unwanted demographics because the sport's leadership think they should become "cool" and "hip," monopoly by money-guy team owners fielding armies of raceteams, overmarketing, and Hollywood glitz.

It is supposed to be about decentralization of the competition - greater numbers of team owners, smaller teams, owner-participant teams, control of the engines by the teams running them instead of having other teams a la Hendrick and Roush controlling your engines.

It is supposed to be about honoring the real demographics; if the sport wants other demographics involved, then try to win them over by example, not by marketing - this is exactly how the sport grew in the 1970s and 1980s.

It is supposed to be about short track graduates earning their way up the competition ladder.

It is supposed to be about rules packages that make better racing, not those that exist solely to seize control of the cars into the control of the officiating tower and inspection station.
It is supposed to be about cars that want to race in dirty air - i.e. dirty air sucking cars forward, as they do at the plate tracks and used to do just about everywhere else, instead of impeding them.

It is supposed to be about racecars secure to the track, not about "who can drive a loose racecar."

And above everything else, it is supposed to be about lead changes, lead changes, and more lead changes. The only passes that matter are up front, not for 15th.

Anonymous said...

The Chase sucks. It never panned out to what it was hyped to be. Now every sportswriter in America loves it because it provides "made up" storylines each week when they actually had to do some work previously. In no other playoff system do those not in the playoff still compete in the postseason. PERIOD.

Anonymous said...

Hey, David, you're forgetting: It's not just Brooks and Dunn at the Daytona 500 prerace show.

They also have Chubby Checker! Michael McDonald! Kool and the Gang! Basically, anybody over 50 years old or appealing to anybody over 50. NASCAR has basically broken its neck doing a 180 on its entertainment choices.

Why do we need a "Sprint Pre-Race" show with a "cast" of 4,000? They could start the race a lot earlier if they'd get rid of the entertainment that no one cares about, young or old.

In addition to all the things you said, NASCAR needs to quit trying to be the NFL. I'm anxiously awaiting (not) the hype about the ads created to debut during Daytona 500.

MArc said...

allfordsuck - "I gave up 25yr tix to fall Bristol and am gone. I here the giant SUCKING sound as Nascash go down the drain ! And I hate it ! Youngsters, Hope you enjoy...."

And I suspect several thousand other fans that have been waiting for Bristol tickets just moved up a notch in the waiting line and they would collectively thank you for the decision made..

MArc said...

joewhire88 - "Nascar more than any other sport is about TRADITION. Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge have tradition. Nascar races are run with rear wheel drive V8 cars. Has Toyota ever built a rear wheel drive V8 car?

What, where's the Jaguar XK-120 tradition? That seemed to have been established in 1954 when Al Keller won in his Jag in a NJ event that included 20 other foreign cars in the 43-car field.

The race started with 12 other Jags, five MG's, one Austin-Healey, one Morgan and one Porsche.

Toyota Corolla, rear wheel drive, and it looks like the suits at Toyota are close to greenlighting a new version.

"I am fully aware that the Ford Fusion and the Chevy Impala are front wheel drive and that only the Impala SS has a V8, but have you driven either on them? I have and they are far more fun to drive than the Toyota Camry, and YES I have driven it too!!"

Then you are far, far, far in the minority. The U.S. consumer has spoken loud and clear about it's preference for the Camry.

"With the Nascar points system no one can miss a race and still win the Championship, well they couldn't before the chase."

Oh please, your trying to say a driver missing an event for whatever reason in say the first 5 events can't male up for the deficit in the next 21 before the Chase or 35 before Homestead.

That patently absurd.

MArc said...

dj - "You and these 2 "know it alls" Marc and NH fan as they sit by in small chairs on each side of your big chair and crown that you wear.My gosh,if it isn't what ya'll 3 believe then it is wrong to post on your blog according to these 2."

How typical of a few blogs and commenters here, heaven forbid someone least of all the author a) point out those that post things that are in fact false, and b) other alternative suggestions for ratings loss, high ticket prices etc, etc.

None of us so called "3" have denied any of the problems expressed by many. What has been suggested are other factors not within control of anyone inside of NASCAR could ALSO be the cause.
And ON ONE, least of all the so called "3" have suggested anyone can't or shouldn't be allowed to express whatever they desire.

But thanks for placing us on your mythical pedestal next to Poole anyway, and that's despite what you accuse us of doing, (stifling ideas and comments), is exactly what you are trying to do, minimize our contributions by tossing out your made up "3" label as if to say "don't listen to these three, they're not 'one of us.'"

Good job, you've joined the dozens of "nattering naybobs of negativism" who refuse to acknowledge anything except it's ALL NASCAR's FAULT.

rer3 said...

Marc you a a moron, plain and simple. i do go to drag races. David Grubnic is one of my favorite drivers because he did not bring money to get his ride. Now try to understand something. The NHRA is the better series because there are no, I repeat, no provisionals. I gave up tickets to the Daytona 500 for many reasons one of which is provisionals. Add in the price of parking ect for other reasons. You made this personal, and I feel for it. Now I end it.

ADS said...

Get rid of the Chase for the Championship. Change qualifying to a "race to get in" format. Get rid of the "35" rule. Then, I "might" start watching again.

For what it is worth, I am one of those fans who has found other things to do on Sunday afternoon, so I guess I am NASCAR's target. Although, I don't really believe NASCAR wants me back. Pretty sad, as I was one of the viewers of the 1979 Daytona 500 and was hooked until the Chase format was instituted.

NASCAR does not want fans, they just want money!

Graceann said...

If NASCAR is doesn't do more than just fix entertainment, then they are gonna continue to lose fans. You should not be able to get tickets to the top draw races {Dayton, Bristol, Dega, ect} yet you hear them announce there are still tickets available to events, even a week before. We had a friend get Dega tickets last year in Lincoln Tower on the top row. That has been unavailable for years, they got them 3 weeks before the race. The only entertainment we ventured out to see was the guys from Trackside and the other Speed TV shows, I could not even tell you who the BIG celebrity was, did not go to Dega for that, went for a race. What did we see? Follow the leader, it wasn't all bad. There were a few that tried to break out of line but most were protecting their points and were not real sure what the COT was gonna do. I will give it another shot, but after this year {just because its Dega} but if the race is no different, then we are letting our tickets go. That's 12 tickets back row Lincoln Tower. These are strictly opinions no need to correct me, or place fact sheets up against anything I said. This post represents my feeling as a NASCAR racefan, I have that right to express any negatives I wish.

Anonymous said...

attempting to argue a point with the "chosen 3" is much like teaching a hog to sing...you waste your time and annoy the hog ...BYW last time I checked Toronto and Montreal are both in Canada, So Marc must have the same Atlas that Brian France has! #5

Fatback said...

Y'all need to stop comlaining about every little thing you don't like.

This is why NASCAR can ignore you--because it looks like nothing will ever satisfy anyone.

"Just put the Rockingham date back, and go back to the old car, and get rid of the chase, and get rid of the Lucky dog and get rid of the Green-White-Checker and get rid of Toyota and only allow American drivers and go back to North Wilkesboro and get rid of the new tires and get rid of the top-35 lock-in and just start races earlier and let the drivers speak their minds and fight if they want to and just make the cars stock again and just fix the TV coverage and...and...and..."

After a while it sounds like whining.

By the way, Rockingham's my least favorite complaint because even when fans knew it could lose its race to California, they [i]still didn't sell it out.[/i] But now, they want it back?

Yeah, sure.

ADS said...

Let me ask this question . . . were there this many complaints about NASCAR before the Chase for the Championship format?

Let's face it, we do not live in a perfect world, but were the fans complaining this much under the old format? Or is it just the fact that we now have the internet, where we did not have it for too many years under the old rules.

I will say it again, NASCAR does not care about the fans as much as they claim. Although money through ticket sales and merchandise, etc. helps the bottom line of the track owners, etc, the TRUE profit maker is the TV deals.

Although, ratings were consistently down in 2007, which may explain why one of the first thing NASCAR does is replace Rusty Wallace. Bestwick also had a status change. I do remember reading a number of complaints last season about Rusty in the booth. Now what does that say? To me it says, NASCAR listens more to complaints about TV broadcasts then other complaints.

Face facts . . . NASCAR's priority is money from TV, not those of us vocalizing in this forum. It's all about the ratings . . . more ratings = more advertisers = more money for NASCAR and track owners! They do not care if it is old fans or new fans watching, they care about number of viewers regardless of who they are.

Get use to it!

Anonymous said...

NASCAR has alienated it's fan base, because we can't identify with this pimple-faced jerks who came into the sport with a silver spoon in their mouth and have proven NOTHING. I've often asked myself, will I keep watching when Mark Martin retires? Dale Jr. might keep me watching...

Hmmm...I always find it hilarious when people claim Jeff Gordon had a "silver spoon" in his mouth and in the next breath proclaim their love for Earnhardt, Jr. So his daddy building an entire team for him doesn't constitute "silver spoon" to you? How blind the Earnhardt fans always have been and always will be. I wonder if you looked at John Bickford's finances in 1991 and Dale Earnhardt, who was the millionaire?

Anonymous said...

Brian France inherited his glorified position. A lot of people that assume a position with a silver spoon in their mouth never "get it". Just because your dad, brother or whoever can do something does not mean you can. Just from observing people my whole life, I get the feeling Brian France will continue to keep NASCAR in a tail spin. People love STOCK CAR racing in a pure form. If we wanted everything the same, we might as well just start a penney pitching circuit.

Elrod Is No Longer A Fan. . .It's the Name! said...

"They also have Chubby Checker! Michael McDonald! Kool and the Gang! Basically, anybody over 50 years old or appealing to anybody over 50. NASCAR has basically broken its neck doing a 180 on its entertainment choices."

Remember, Daytona International Speedway is celebrating the 50th running of the Daytona 500! It is a golden anniversary pre-race celebration. In short, it has nothing to do with targeting a certain age demographic. It deals with trying to get entertainment for each decade since the 1st running of the Daytona 500! Plain and simple as that, so don't assume!

I just wonder if anyone is left from the late 1940's that is still entertaining for a living?

Anonymous said...

Great column, David.

I'm sorry that so many people here don't see to understand that you're being honest about the chances of things being "put back to the way there were." It's not going to happen.

Of course, if they read the title of the blog, they'd notice that you agree with them that this is all just lip-service on NASCAR's part.

And like the guy said above, if you loved the Rock so much, why didn't you fill the seats when it mattered?

Elrod Is No Longer A Fan. . .It's the Name! said...

"They also have Chubby Checker! Michael McDonald! Kool and the Gang! Basically, anybody over 50 years old or appealing to anybody over 50. NASCAR has basically broken its neck doing a 180 on its entertainment choices."

CORRECTION: Should have read. . . .
I just wonder if anyone is left from the late 1950's (not 40's) that is available to book? DUH!

Anonymous said...

Remember one important detail when reading Pooles' or most other columns . He can not afford to irritate NASCAR because he will no longer get media credentials to the races . So don't look for any hard hitting attacks from any writer who wants to get into the free buffet at the media center of a NASCAR race .
The fact is , the racing was just fine without the rules manipulations . Not one single rules change has resulted in racing that is better than it was 10 years ago . The top 35 , the lucky dog , the start times , the elimination of the Southern 500 ,all were done to make more money for NASCAR or to help cover up problems resulting from other ill-advised rules manipulations .
Every single person in the US is a foreigner unless you are a full blooded American Indian , so lets move on from the silly debate over drivers from other countries.

Anonymous said...

In short, it has nothing to do with targeting a certain age demographic. It deals with trying to get entertainment for each decade since the 1st running of the Daytona 500! Plain and simple as that, so don't assume!

It has nothing to do with targeting a certain demographic, huh? Then why are all the acts 'golden oldies' who play corporate events much of the time these days? Are Kool and the Gang and Brooks and Dunn supposed to represent the 80's and 90's- That's what you're saying? Uh huh.

There's also no act from this decade, so I'm skeptical that NASCAR picked the music to salute 50 years. They didn't mention a theme in the press release and they would have been all over that if they had thought of it themselves.

They picked out music they are praying none of the fans whine about - as dummy Rusty Wallace put it the other day, "the acid rock and roll" he blamed for sending NASCAR spiraling.

Maybe you're the one doing the assuming.

Anonymous said...

He can not afford to irritate NASCAR because he will no longer get media credentials to the races .

If you believe that, then he's done, because the title of this blog entry should irritate NASCAR.

elrod is no longer a fan . . . it's the name said...

Dear Annon. (Whichever one of the many you are)

"It has nothing to do with targeting a certain demographic, huh? Then why are all the acts 'golden oldies' who play corporate events much of the time these days? Are Kool and the Gang and Brooks and Dunn supposed to represent the 80's and 90's- That's what you're saying? Uh huh."

Answer your own questions, but please apply some common sense as opposed to conspiracy theories.
Better yet, call Daytona International Speedway, ask them, and prove me wrong. As it stands right now, my post appears to make just a tad more sense based on the 50th anniversary. Back up your theory with some concrete evidence instead of assumptions.

"There's also no act from this decade, so I'm skeptical that NASCAR picked the music to salute 50 years. They didn't mention a theme in the press release and they would have been all over that if they had thought of it themselves."

If you really want to know, again I suggest call the Daytona International Speedway and ask them. It could be a cost factor, availability, etc. And, there is still time to go, so maybe they are not done booking.
I never read anything that says ALL the acts, just some of the entertainment. Come back to us with proof after you call Daytona International Speedway.

"They picked out music they are praying none of the fans whine about - as dummy Rusty Wallace put it the other day, "the acid rock and roll" he blamed for sending NASCAR spiraling."

Seriously, do you REALLY believe that? PLEASE!

"Maybe you're the one doing the assuming."

Trust me, I would not waste my time responding to your ranting or post to this form if I was not darned sure of what I was publishing and have my facts straight.

Right now, my information makes a bit more sense then your assumptions. Sometimes things just deal with logic and not conspiracy.

Plus, I believe there was an article on "That's Racin': about ten days ago that stated precisely what I posted about entertainment by the decades. Doesn't mean they could accomplish the goal, just means they wanted to do it, if possible!

Awaiting for the information after you call DIS and prove me wrong! Although. . . . I will not hold my breath, anymore than NASCAR is going to get rid of The Chase for The Championship!

Anonymous said...

Call DIS to prove you wrong? Come back to "us" with more information to prove you wrong? Please. Why would I make the effort? I don't know who you are, sorry. I know what I read and that's the official press release. I'll take that over your typing whatever you want on the keyboard.

And Rusty said:

Wallace thinks that NASCAR might have tried to turn the sport into something that it wasn't as it attempted to lure a new audience.

"When Dale Sr. passed away, instead of having country music for our music, we were listening to, we went to rock and roll. Then we went to a lot of acid rock and roll. Then we went to California. We went to people that, quite frankly, I didn't even know," he said. "And it all changed. We couldn't figure out how to do both. We just did one and really screwed up the other part, and NASCAR realizes that now."


http://www.scenedaily.com/stories/2008/01/21/scene_daily88.html

Darrell Waltrip said:

"Quite honestly, NASCAR has really in my view kind of gone in the wrong direction with their choice of artists and music that they use at some of the races," Waltrip said. "I think country music is more appropriate for what we
do. So this is kind of a nice marriage of traditional old stuff that we've always done --country music, racecars, drivers.


http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/headlines/cup/01/01/sound.speed.mwaltrip.dwaltrip/index.html

They DO think the fans have been complaining about the music -they're doing it themselves. They call it complaining, I call it whining.

DJ said...

As far as Rockingham....I know Nascar will not come back to the ROCK.Like I said no one was interested in cold weather and wind chills when it didn't really matter because Cali was getting the date.What was the point.Besides I can only speak for myself as I was there.Didn't take a survey,but IMO that climate element was the main reason fans didn't come out.Not a viable market area maybe.If they would have given us a warmer date,the stands would have filled.On that note,there were plenty of empty seats in most of the Chase races.Why smarty pants??

We all can argue on why the TV ratings have dropped and empty seats occured.The majority seem to think it is all the things mentioned above.Call it whining or complainers or whatever,IT IS THE TRUTH.Is anything going to change to keep us whiners happy?Who knows?Brooks and Dunn has nothing to do with the crappy product on the track,so I agree that isn't going to help much.When the racing gets better and the drivers grow a set again maybe things will start to get better......

There was no complaining like the last few months back before Brian France started his deal.Bottom line is that since the rules started coming down, the racing product, which includes the drivers and racing and all the corperate crap $$ has soured on alot of fans and it SHOWS.

For those that can't stand us complainers....Don't read our thoughts if you can't handle the obvious reasons why the sport is declining in interest.This is a open discussion is it not?You can have your thoughts and we can have ours.I'm just blown away by the fact that anyone would argue to the death that the issues that we complain about are not the problem.So what the heck are the problems?Us fans, right?Whatever.Hell,even Humpy Wheeler sees things as alot of us fans do and I guess he doesn't know anything either and is just a whiner right?

Please answer one of you haters of the obvious.Why are we complaining?What are the problems if what we are complaining about is wrong?Why have the TV ratings plummented and more and more empty seats and mostly in your great Chase races?If it isn't all the mentioned changes in the last few years then what is it?Why has the interest level left alot of fans?And don't give me a bunch of crap #'s and comparisons to other sports.If that is your case then,I'm wasting my time looking for a REAL answer.I'm probably wasting my time anyway!LOL!

I guess reality is we will have varying thoughts,facts, and opinions on why alot of the fans are tuning out.Such is this blog.All I want is better racing,drivers not afriad to speak their mind or drive with training wheels around the precious Chase drivers.The costs for us fans is just the way anything is,HIGH!So if we are going to shell out the bucks the racing and entertainment value needs to improve.I know we all can't be satisfied totally,but something needs to change and by that I mean change back.Ya'll have a nice week and be safe............

rschwalbe said...

Simple way to determine the championship since there are NO division to "playoff" against each other - -run all 36 races and let the teams decide which 30 or 32 finishes they'll count.
Keeps the final standings unknown until the very end, and, no more welfare points or punishing the achievers.
Of course -this is WAAAAYY too simple a solution for NA$CAR

Anonymous said...

Thank God for Hooter's Pro Cup. Support your local short track.

elrod is no longer a phone . . .it's the name said...

Dear Annon.

As I anticipated, you could not provide proof from the entertainment venue holding the 50th running of the Daytona 500. (Just a friendly reminder, NASCAR is the governing body. . . the tracks hire the entertainment and are the venue for NASCAR series events.)

Rusty, D.W. and everyone has a right to their "opinion." Sorry for you that opinions are not facts.
You provided no facts at all, as I figured.

Let's save space and use this quote from the site we are communicating through. . . "THAT'S RACIN" which was posted on January 22, 2008

To quote the article:
In addition to Brooks & Dunn, Chubby Checker. Michael McDonald and Kool & the Gang will rock the high-profile pre-race entertainment stage, bringing together an amazing collection of musical icons from different musical eras."
http://www.thatsracin.com/119/story/10083.html

Hopefully you understood the last four words of the sentence above!

And I stand corrected, the article was not ten days ago. . . it was less than one week ago!

DONE. . . THE END!

Anonymous said...

Look, folks, if I read Poole right, he's saying, "NASCAR can claim they're going back to their roots, but you and I both know they won't really do anything to back up their words."

Which is true, and which most people realize now.

Anonymous said...

Didn't take a survey,but IMO that climate element was the main reason fans didn't come out.Not a viable market area maybe.If they would have given us a warmer date,the stands would have filled.On that note,there were plenty of empty seats in most of the Chase races.Why smarty pants??
I don't know.

I do know the California race, even with empty seats, sold a LOT more than the Rock even accomdates.

Bottom line: if the NC/SC race fans weren't willing to fill the Rock when they knew they might lose the race because of poor attendance, and still didn't fill the place, then they have no place to look but in the mirror.

Anonymous said...

Whatever, bud. It's not the DONE...The END! except to you. (And what's with all the exclamation points?)

Point out anywhere in that article that says Kool and the Gang and Brooks and Dunn are there to represent a specific decade that the Daytona 500 has been in existence as you originally speculated. It's not there.

Remember? "It deals with trying to get entertainment for each decade since the 1st running of the Daytona 500!"

Nope. Simply says "bringing together an amazing collection of musical icons from different musical eras". i.e., they are there because they are old and "inoffensive". Again, no one representing the 90s or the 00s.

And now I'm DONE. THE END. Enjoying responding with your exclamation points!!!!

Anonymous said...

No, I'm DONE.

Now it's THE END.

Because I say so!

kcysr said...

Most professional sports need a playoff because all teams don't get to play each other during the regular season or not very often anyway. But in Na$car for the most part all the teams face each other each week except for the guys out of the top 35. So to throw away what they do against each other all season and do a playoff is really ridiculous if you think about it.

Anonymous said...

Who cares what music is playing before the Daytona 500? Why did this blog turn into the VMA's or the Grammy's. Take your iPod and listen to what you want!

Anonymous said...

There is so much violence on TV frankly, I enjoy the one sport that behaves itself.

Richard in N.C. said...

DAVID- The biggest "back to basics" is letting the long-time fans know they are appreciated and not just taken for granted - and starting to clean up the substandard ESPN coverage of NASCAR is a BIG step in that direction. Now if NASCAR would just see to it that Bill Weber is sent to North Wilkeboro, and left there, that would be anothe HUGE step.
Also, as you should well know, money does not always buy success. If it did, Toyota would have won many F1 races- instead of none. PEOPLE and money wisely spent results in success - as Rick Hendrick, Joe Gibbs, and RC have shown.

ADS said...

What happened to the original point of this forum?

I will say it again, get rid of the Chase, change qualifying to "a race to get in format", and drop the 35. Although, I tend to agree with others on the forum about the lucky dog. Don't like it at all.
Everything old is new again, so let's go back to the old points format and make it brand new. I think adding a qualifying race for each Sprint event just might draw a few more viewers. Any thoughts on this?

As an aside regarding the music discussion, I hand the lucky dog to Elrod on the post from That's Racin. The article also said there were more acts to come.
So it is really to early to know if all decades will not be represented.

Anonymous said...

"...running off Brent Musburger and Suzy Kolber, ESPN/ABC is going to “fix” everything that’s “wrong” with stock-car racing?"

It's a start.

MArc said...

rer3 - "Marc you a a moron, plain and simple. i do go to drag races. David Grubnic is one of my favorite drivers because he did not bring money to get his ride."

I made it personnel?

Who was it that first claimed someone was "thick? That would be you.

Who was it that said they would "type slower so you will understand?"

Who then followed that up with calling me a moron? That would also be you

Now "Mr, rer3," where in any of my responses to you did any name calling, or form of invective or shot at you personally occur?

I'll happily apologize if and when you can quote any occurrences in this thread?

'Til then this will be chalked up as yet another example of your preference for overblown, and mostly inaccurate rhetoric rather than reasoned honest debate.

Anonymous said...

Marc, What does your comments have to do with the original blog post? You have degraded into your bully mode. Please move on. Let others make a comment to the blog.

MArc said...

ads - "Let me ask this question . . . were there this many complaints about NASCAR before the Chase for the Championship format?"

You partially answered your own question in your next paragraph. (having the internet as a forum for "complaint")

As a four year vet at blogging auto racing and a long-time vet of racing furums before blogs came to the forefront I can atest to the reality that many of the same complaints heard today were present 5-8 years ago.

More from ads - "Although money through ticket sales and merchandise, etc. helps the bottom line of the track owners, etc, the TRUE profit maker is the TV deals."

Track owners make very little, if any, from the TV deals the vast majority goes to NASCAR's/ISC's bottomline.

That said, the lowered ratings of the last few years, although NOT entirely NASCAR's internal problems, are what they are now addressing. Or attempting to.

Ads comtinues - "Although, ratings were consistently down in 2007, which may explain why one of the first thing NASCAR does is replace Rusty Wallace. Bestwick also had a status change. I do remember reading a number of complaints last season about Rusty in the booth. Now what does that say? To me it says, NASCAR listens more to complaints about TV broadcasts then other complaints."

Unless you have evidence that NASCAR had a hand in the TV network's axing of Rusty I'd say that was a fallacious accusation.

What I do know for fact is several of the top rated NASCAR themed blogs are monitored by ESPN and Fox, so the likely and more reasonable answer is they are in fact responding to the many complaints about Wallace's on air performance.

And before someone asks... I know both through my efforts and those of a few of the top read NASCAR blogs who check referrals on a regular basis and discover IP addresses to both networks visit on a nearly weekly routine.

That's in addition to the thousands of Emails the networks in all probability have gotten.

MArc said...

anon - "Marc, What does your comments have to do with the original blog post? You have degraded into your bully mode. Please move on. Let others make a comment to the blog."

What[?], someone is not allowed to respond to someone else in this type of forum? Someone can't respond to a completely false charge leveled?

Secondly how are my comments of presence in the thread not allowing others to comment?

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

I'm to shut up is that it? Sorry, it's not your position to monitor or be the local sheriff here. Gotta complaint, take it up with David Poole, I'm reasonably sure he will listen contently and give your complaint it's due response.

yankeegranny said...

AS a yankee transplant from NY to SC, let me give you the perspective of a "new" nascar fan. I love;
1. The lucky dog
2. Green/white/checker
3. DW and boogedie,etc
4, Dale Jr and Michael Waltrip.
5. Fantasy racing(won some money in 07)
6.The tech show with Chad and Bootie and Larry
I hate:
1.Provisionals( would give 1 a year)
2.Top 35( would give the top 10 from the previous week a spot and qualify the rest)
3.Prerace shows that are long and boring
4.Wall to wall commercials(split the screen for gods same so we can see the race)
5.Idiots for announcers( do like Brad D though)
Just the thoughts of a retired schoolteacher grandmother of 6 who has become addicted to NAASCAR. And yes, I think there should be a petition to put the show back on speed on Monday night.

MArc said...

anon - "Of course, if they read the title of the blog, they'd notice that you agree with them that this is all just lip-service on NASCAR's part.

And like the guy said above, if you loved the Rock so much, why didn't you fill the seats when it mattered?"


Two points, they don't just have to read the blog post, and it contents but understand them. As plainly evidenced, many either have zero abilities at comprehension or they see the word "NASCAR" in the title and like Pavlovs dogs "answer the bell" and start spewing whatever's on their mind whether it be reasoned concerns for their preferred sports or the latest meme learned is some forum somewhere.

Secondly I'll add this to the "Rock" discussion, what you say is true the area fans and those that drove long distense to The Rock knew well in advance ofits demise yet they couldn't support the final race enough to fill the stands. And it was held in excellent weather which lays to waste the "weather issue". Secondly the owners of the Rock did virtually nothing to improve the tracks amenities or access to the facilities in it's final years.

And owner can't expect to hold fans and grow participation while sitying on their collective hands.

Best of luck to the new owners of the place, I'm sure they will sell out the ARCA Carolina 500 in the spring. And I'm just as sure it won't last if improvements aren't made to bring the track up to current standards.

MArc said...

yankeegranny - thanks for the well thought out response, much better than the vast majority here.

Maybe you should call in some "NYC markers" as it were and use your home state contacts to inundate the idiot politicians that lord over Staten Island. They need their short hairs yanked hard for the many lies and misdirections they used in the debate over the ISC purposed track there.

Honest debate over the tracks location was/is warranted but some of the childish tricks they pulled were way out of line.

ADS said...

Hey Marc,

At first I thought you might work for NASCAR or ISC as a plant based on some of your posts. But, that was proven wrong with your line about TV money.

Let me use just one of your baseless points.
To quote Marc's post:
Track owners make very little, if any, from the TV deals the vast majority goes to NASCAR's/ISC's bottomline.

You see not all of it goes to NASCAR (the sanctioning body) and International Speedway Corporation (owner of numerous tracks and a motorsports entertainment company). Let me offer some concrete evidence to include the web page addresses to visit. These all deal with the past two television contracts:

1. During the FOX / NBC contract: "Track owners received 65 percent of the television money, with 25 percent going to racing teams and 10 percent to NASCAR."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D01E5D8153CF936A15750C0A9679C8B63

Did you get that Marc. NASCAR GOT 10 PERCENT.
THE TRACKS RECEIVED 65 PERCENT OF TV MONEY.

2. To quote an ESPN article regarding the NEW TV contract: "Bruton Smith, the chairman of Speedway Motorsports that owns some of the top Cup venues in Charlotte, Texas, Las Vegas and Dallas, said tracks can't afford to surrender a larger portion of the TV money." http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/story?seriesId=2&columnist=newton_david&id=3097622

I would think Bruton would know if he gets TV money or not, and he isn't part of ISC. So, apparently tracks DO get TV money, outside of those owned by ISC. NASCAR does not own tracks, but they do get a portion of TV money. Maybe what you should have written was the TRACKS get a large portion of the TV money and NASCAR receives a smaller share than the tracks.

Your claim to know a great deal does not prove anything to any of us. Just because you read does not mean you read accurate information.

With that said, you can't work for either NASCAR or ISC, because you would have known tracks make a GREAT deal of money from TV, or you would have been fired by now. That's the POINT of a TV deal for all track owners. Why do you think Kentucky filed against ISC? Kentucky wanted TV MONEY, because it is huge compared to ticket sales, merchandise sales, food sales, etc.

Hey, maybe you work for THAT's RACIN just to trump up the discussion. No, your knowledge base is lacking even to do that.

Now it is your turn Marc, offer me some web site addresses that say that tracks do NOT get much TV money.

ADS said...

Due to the addresses being chopped in my last post here they are in their entirety.

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?series
=wc&id=2251049

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?
res=9D01E5D8153CF936A15750C0A9679C8B63

Or do a google search and you can find them both by searching NASCAR Television contracts, or ISC TV money, is SMI TV money, etc.

MArc said...

ads - "Hey, maybe you work for THAT's RACIN just to trump up the discussion. No, your knowledge base is lacking even to do that.

Now it is your turn Marc, offer me some web site addresses that say that tracks do NOT get much TV money."


Touche'! That's one for you. Congrats, well done and my hats off to you. As for this, "No, your knowledge base is lacking even to do that," that might be true. However you have noting to base it on except this single instence.

Now I'd be more than happy to retract anything else you may find that is wrong factually. (And really, that's the way it's supposed to work on this and any other blogs. Some haven't a clue in that regard)

Good hunting!

BTW... got any factual evidence that shows NASCAR had a hand in Wallace's demotion from the broadcast booth?

Good hunting for that also!

Monkeesfan said...

Marc, Rockingham will sell out because it's in a racing demographic. It didn't sell out earlier because NASCAR chased the fanbase away. It's that simple.

MArc said...

ads - "Hey, maybe you work for THAT's RACIN just to trump up the discussion. No, your knowledge base is lacking even to do that.

And I should have added... not on your life. I turned down Bob Henry 3 year ago to write in his circus called blogs (not to be inferred as all inclusive several are A-OK). At the time it was populated with the likes of "Mayor Jimmy" who spewed more hate and foul language than a sailor at sea on a regular basis, his refusal to reign in the idiot led me to turn his down.

And frankly, Poole excluded, there are one or two over there that let the discussions get way out of line and nothings done about it. That lays at the feet of Bob Henry also.

Monkeesfan said...

Richard in NC - "People" like Hendrick and Joe Gibbs would never have had the success they did if they were low on the engineering totem pole while other teams were way ahead of them. Toyota's lack of success in F1 was because it was the only area where they could be outspent; everywhere else they've raced - Indycars, the Truck Series - they've outspent the other brands and priced them out of contention.

MArc said...

Monkeesfan - "Toyota's lack of success in F1 was because it was the only area where they could be outspent; everywhere else they've raced - Indycars, the Truck Series - they've outspent the other brands and priced them out of contention."

In March 2007 F1 Racing published its annual estimates of spending by Formula One teams. The total spending of all 11 teams in 2006 was estimated at $2.9 billion. This was broken down as follows; Toyota $418.5 million, Ferrari $406.5m, McLaren $402m, Honda $380.5m, BMW Sauber $355m, Renault $324m, Red Bull $252m, Williams $195.5m, Midland F1/Spyker-MF1 $120m, Toro Rosso $75m, and Super Aguri $57 million.

Oops! sorry!

ADS said...

Marc,

My hats off to you for your response! It is not at all what I expected. I love a good "hunt." On the other hand, I will proceed with caution.

As for the Wallace comment. To quote myself:
"Although, ratings were consistently down in 2007, which may explain why one of the first thing NASCAR does is replace Rusty Wallace."

The key word is "MAY" explain. I did not say it was fact. Remember the definition of "may" is "might" or "could be."

As for Rusty, in his defense, I am not sure he was comfortable in the booth. The Rusty I know would make a great pit-road reporter. He is a guy that needs to be where ALL the action is, not locked upstairs in some booth. He is an animated type person and that is a good thing!

Please trust me when I say, NASCAR has a lot to say about what happens with the TV contract. Their reputation is on the line.

With that said, the broadcast partners, be it FOX, ESPN, TNT, TNN, CBS, ABC, or whomever want NASCAR happy; be it the old days or now.

Remember, NASCAR signs the contract and so does the broadcast partners. So, if NASCAR thinks something is not working, you can bet a beer there is communication from NASCAR to the network stating that. It works both ways, too.

If the ratings are down, and NASCAR receives consistent complaints about something, trust me, changes will be made. So if the fans yell loud enough, often times I think NASCAR deserves credit for listening. Maybe the fans yelled that they didn't like Rusty, not only to NASCAR but to ESPN and ABC. Again, I said "maybe!" Who knows, but for whatever reason, a change has been made, and I like D.J. as an announcer.

And back to the original point of this entire blog, even TV coverage is much different then what we refer to as the "Good Ole Days." Heck, I remember watching highlights of the Daytona 500 on ABC's Wide World of Sports. So, TV is another major change, along with the points system. When it comes to TV, for the most part, the change is excellent. At least we get to watch races in their entirety instead of "the best highlights" like before the 1979 running of the Daytona 500.

As I said, this is not a perfect world. So you have to take the bad with the good, and I will take current television coverage over that of the early 1980's as a good change by NASCAR. And, the fans are what made that change happen.

MArc said...

ads - "As for Rusty, in his defense, I am not sure he was comfortable in the booth. The Rusty I know would make a great pit-road reporter."

I have never understood the vitriol Rusty invoked within NASCAR Nation. The race is important not what some booth bobblehead has to say.

But I do find it odd he had so much trouble adjusting to his job. He was well known to possess a "gift of gab" during his career, it just didn't translate for some reason.

On the other hand he and others (Hello Brian France) have been caught up in the "everything is bad about NASCAR" meme and had everything under the sun blamed on them.

ADS said...

Just as with Rusty not adjusting, maybe Brian France is going through some adjustments, too. Look at the legacy he was handed? Was Bill, Sr. or Bill, Jr. perfect the first few years they were running NASCAR? Don't you think it was trial and error for them, and now for Brian? Frankly, sometimes I think we are all to hard on ourselves and each other.

There is good and bad in everything - and I would much rather be posting in a forum about NASCAR (regardless of whether I watch much anymore) then a forum about politics. And that, in itself, is proof of what a great sport it has become.

With that I will leave with hoping NASCAR will at least consider a "race to get in" qualifying system for the Sprint Cup series. Blast me all you want, but qualifying is BORING! NASCAR and the broadcast partners need to find a way to make one or two laps around more exciting.

Go ahead, hit me with your best shot because you can not change my mind on this issue.

tbalt said...

All of you complainers "need to get a life" but you probably have heard that before. Just enjoy the races, it's going to be what it is. As far as Toyote, I hope they win because my team drive a car with their stickers. Thats right "stickers", none of the cars are acually Toyota's, chevy's or Ford's.

Conor said...

Fire Brian France, and ax ANYTHING is dreamed up in his teanure. Ax toyota, the top 35 (what really is the point of qualifying anymore? Pit selection? whoopty doo!), the chase, the pathetic car on the track... ya know IROC, is having an auction, NASCAR should just buy those and hand them before each race.

-Conor

Youcannotbeserious said...

Ha ha, Rusty Wallace in the booth probably cost NASSCAH thousands of viewers. He might know how to drive a car but he sounds like he's as dumb as a sack of hammers.
I'm sure "Matt Kenthis" will miss him this year. As for all of these "arguments"? I am SO GLAD I don't live in the South.

Charles Jackson said...

David
Some of the things they could do is!

Move the Labor Day Race back to Darlington!

Redo the point system! Start paying points on laps led! Not just half way etc, but make every lap count as a point, then total up and give winner a bonus!Tired of paying $100 plus for tickets to races and it be a stragety or chess match, especially the middle portion!Racing is about cars exchanging the lead, this will make the race more important!

Increasing the competition between the car manufacturers, it has been a one brand show, IROC is a good business model of where they are headed if they dont change it! Us 'Car Guy's are putting other hobbies on our list, and leaving NASCAR!The brand still counts no matter how they want you to think, Remember JR Robert Yates swithing to Ford last year! They came out of the closet didnt they?

You also said they would not come back to NORTH WILKESBORO and ROCKINGHAM! BUT they came back to TEXAS AND California, after failed attempts at College Station and Ontario, plus Riverside!
Remember Retro is now in sinc!
Think Mustang, Camaro, and Challanger! Us Car Guys are new school again!

MArc said...

conor - "the pathetic car on the track... "

First, why do you, or anyone think a totally new car design can perform up to it's full potential after what was, IMO, a piss-poor testing program corrupted by both team owners and NASCAR, and only 16 sanctioned events?

It took several years for the "old template" cars that was just tossed on the scrap heap to become "drivable."

Secondly why does anyone think it's fair to lay all the blame on Brain France for the CoT. The cars initial design was laid on paper in late 2001 and the first mock-up was in Oct 2003.

France was heading the West Coast arm of nascar from it's inception until taking over as president in Sept 2003.

He just carried on what was already started.

Anonymous said...

The fact that many of you people consider internet sites to be proof positve of ANYTHING is frightening . A cite of a comment by a blogger means very little toward proving a point .

MArc said...

charles johnson - The brand still counts no matter how they want you to think

Couldn't agree more. And counter to common wisdom (that is far from common)so is "win on Sunday, sell on Monday."

Think not?

Example: With great fanfair Dodge pimped the Dodge Avenger and used it in all CoT events. A pure marketing scam.

But opps... what happened? This year they pulled the Avenger and will run the Charger.

The cover story is they are trying to get "more competitive."

Well, their cover is blown by Project D

Dodge received so many complaints about the interior design of both the Avenger and the Sebring models they are in complete redsign by a team of senior managers and directors.

That's called opps! "We better pull the Avenger and get it out of the spotlight 'til we fix it!"

Put another way, "we'll pimp the Charger a bit longer and hope it will "sell on Monday."

MArc said...

anon - "The fact that many of you people consider internet sites to be proof positve of ANYTHING is frightening . A cite of a comment by a blogger means very little toward proving a point."

And which "cite of a blogger" are you referring to?

It would assist greatly to know. 'Cause believe it or not some DO ACTUALLY care and report truth and facts as they are known at the time of writing. AND they also correct wrong statements when warranted.

To blindly dismiss all of them whether on racing or the tech genre or those of a political nature is frankly silly in the extreme.

margie said...

Everything you've said in this article is probably true, David. Can you explain, then, why so many of us have become dissatisfied with NASCAR in the last 5 years or so and why TV ratings are dwindling? Why can't Yates get sponsorship? Why are teams selling out to billionaires? Something is really wrong here.
Margie

BrainPosse: said...

Monkeesfan has some good points: Limit the dollars and change the tires, and then a lot of people are on the same level (for a while, at least).

And instead of the Chase, how about something like this: The champ is based on the best 15 or 20 finishes. More than 10 guys are still in it then, and there's a lot less riding around for points.

MArc said...

BrainPosse - "And instead of the Chase, how about something like this: The champ is based on the best 15 or 20 finishes. More than 10 guys are still in it then, and there's a lot less riding around for points.

Um... how does that work? Wouldn't those vieing for a chance at being one of those with the best finishing records ALSO just ride around for points trying to get there?

Geesh guy, did you even think before you write?

"Limit the dollars and change the tires, and then a lot of people are on the same level (for a while, at least)."

And how does that whole salary cap to even competition dream work in the NFL or the MLB?

It doesn't and never has.

And even if it did, what do you do after, as you say, for a while at least.

What then, another majoy change and upheaval in the sport?

Monkeesfan said...

Marc, the salary cap works well in the NFL - it added competitive depth the sport hadn't had before. NASCAR is in more need of spending caps and inter-team revenue sharing than the NFL was.

BTW Marc, your own link on F1 budgets doesn't disprove my point despite what you think. Toyota couldn't outspend its opposition in F1; it can and has everywhere else, including the Trucks.

Also, when you blithely claim "it took several years for the 'old template' cars....to become driveable" you ignore they had a far better baseline in which to work - they were aerodynamically sound. Plus, they became less driveable when NASCAR cut downforce from them - that stupid 5&5 rule brought back in 2004.

Finally, Brian France deserves the blame for the failure that is the COT because he saw it was not going to work and did not cancel it. As a leader it was his responsibility to abort the project; he refused to.

That is not responsible leadership, it is a fundamental failure of such.

Monkeesfan said...

BTW, to go back to an earlier point -

"When has 'stroking it' by point leaders not happened?"

The 1960s, the 1970s, and early 1980s. It was a big part of what started controversy over the Latford Point System.

MArc said...

monkeesfan - "BTW Marc, your own link on F1 budgets doesn't disprove my point despite what you think. Toyota couldn't outspend its opposition in F1; it can and has everywhere else, including the Trucks."

It couldn't? Why because you say so It hasn't outspend it's rivals in F1, by whose authority? Yours?

Sorry!!! That crap ain't gonna fly.

Then what does this list mean?

Toyota $418.5 million, Ferrari $406.5m, McLaren $402m, Honda $380.5m, BMW Sauber $355m, Renault $324m, Red Bull $252m, Williams $195.5m, Midland F1/Spyker-MF1 $120m, Toro Rosso $75m, and Super Aguri $57 million.

MArc said...

monkeesfan - "Also, when you blithely claim "it took several years for the 'old template' cars....to become driveable" you ignore they had a far better baseline in which to work"

Then you have failed NASCAR History 101. The first templates were used in 1967.

You calim before that they were better aerodynamiclly?

OK, then why did David Pearson call the '55 version of the Charger "like dancing with a "fat lady on skates" when speeds reached upwards of 190 miles an hour."

MArc said...

Oops, sorry... that should read the 1966 vrsion of the Dodge Charger.

Monkeesfan said...

Marc, I didn't flunk history, you just moved the goalposts. I was talking about the car immediately preceding the COT. It was more aerodynamically sound, in that it made more downforce and was racier than the COT.

On the 1966 Charger, you leave out that the car was unstable until NASCAR mandated a spoiler for the car in July of that year.

Your F1 link doesn't disprove my argument, though I should note I misspoke earlier in that my post should have read that F1 is the area where Toyota couldn't outspend its opposition - though to be self-serving I should note your own figures show Toyota was grossly outspent by its combined foes.

This isn't the case in the Trucks and wasn't the case in Indycars, and there's no reason to believe it won't be the case in Winston Cup.

MArc said...

Monkeesfan - "Marc, I didn't flunk history, you just moved the goalposts. I was talking about the car immediately preceding the COT. It was more aerodynamically sound, in that it made more downforce and was racier than the COT.

No nitwit I set the goalposts by being first out of the box first with the following: ""it took several years for the 'old template' cars...."

Just because you chose to rewrite history, or are clueless to it and ramble on endlessly doesn't mean I moved anything.

And BTW, anyone, including you, who thinks they can fairly judge the CoT after only 16 events and a piss-poor testing program corrupted by NASCAR and several teams you're all a few peanuts short of a Snickers Bar.

MArc said...

Oh... and speaking of moving goalposts... "though to be self-serving I should note your own figures show Toyota was grossly outspent by its combined foes."

Are you frickin' crazy! And that proves what? (other than a sad grasp at straws) You have consistently said here and in other threads Toyota has been and contiunes to outspend other teams. TEAMS as in individual not collectively.

Jeebus... you can't even perform a valid mea culpa without screwin' the pooch.

Monkeesfan said...

Marc, you didn't set any goalposts, you just moved them. You talked about the "old template" cars without specifying what era. If you wanted people to understand you were talking about the 1960s, you should have specified that. Moreover, you continue to miss the point, which is that the cars with the long nose/flush airdam/chopped roofline design were racier than the COT because they are sounder aerodynamically.

One can fairly judge the COT because nowhere in any testing for any of its races did the car fulfill any promise.

The COT will reduce the aeropush - it's worse now than before.

The COT will negate the need for 20 different cars for 20 different tracks because it's a one size fits all package - One size NEVER fits all and different bodies are showing ten horsepower differences, meaning teams will build and build to find that ten extra HP and wind up back to "20 different cars for 20 different tracks" just like before.

You try to blame the testing program - nice try, but it's a bunk argument. The testing was fine; it was not the problem, the whole COT project was the problem. It never should have gotten this far, it should have been aborted before running a single race lap.

Once again, since you're still in denial, the fact remains that Toyota outspends its opponants almost everywhere it races; that's how it has succeeded where it has raced. And you still haven't listed any good to come to NASCAR from Toyota involvement.

MArc said...

monkeesfan - "Marc, you didn't set any goalposts, you just moved them. You talked about the "old template" cars without specifying what era. If you wanted people to understand you were talking about the 1960s, you should have specified that."

And that wasn't done by noting the '66 Charger from the year before the template era started? Please... eyes open, please!

You continue to out do yourself.

"Moreover, you continue to miss the point, which is that the cars with the long nose/flush airdam/chopped roofline design were racier than the COT because they are sounder aerodynamically.

Well D'OH! I never argued otherwise.

"One can fairly judge the COT because nowhere in any testing for any of its races did the car fulfill any promise."

Ummm D'OH AGAIN. YOU chose to "fairly" judge them. Could it possibly be because all the testing in aggregate wasn't enough? It's fact almost none of the tests were conducted with enough cars to judge how they react when in packs.

ALL the tests done in 2006 were woefully under represented by the number of cars and that was partially due to NASCAR's piss-poor decisions and teams like Roush very slow to participate.

Everyone has complained about the Talladega results, too bad get over it, it was the FIRST time that many cars had been on the track at the same time and the FIRST time team and NASCAR engineers could evaluate ow the cars would react AND on a green green track that is fresh of resurfacing.

But you will never acknowledge that or any other positive thing about NASCAR. You never have and never will near as I can tell. EVERYTHING is bad in your mind.

If I'm wrong point me towards any writings of your that shows otherwise.

"The COT will negate the need for 20 different cars for 20 different tracks because it's a one size fits all package - One size NEVER fits all and different bodies are showing ten horsepower differences,

You tried to pull that unattributed quote before and couldn't find any buyers except yourself.

"Once again, since you're still in denial, the fact remains that Toyota outspends its opponents almost everywhere it races; that's how it has succeeded where it has raced. And you still haven't listed any good to come to NASCAR from Toyota involvement."

Related question: You quickly shifted positions from Toyota outspending everyone and destroying every racing category they are in... when you are definitively proven to be NUTS that the Toys suck buttermilk in F1 AND spend the most.... suddenly your position changes to....

Oh well yeah... but... but... but they are out spent by all the F1 Teams combined.

Is it your contention Ford, Dodge, and GM combined also out spend the Toy NCTS program?

And if so why are the Toys generally more competitive?

The reality is you were proven to be so far off base on the F1 program as to be delusional, ill informed and finally not smart enough to backoff.

Monkeesfan said...

Marc, you didn't specify that in the post where you talked about "old template" cars - if you wanted to make that point about the 1966 Dodge you should have specified that. Don't lecture me about "eyes open," open your own eyes.

"I never argued otherwise (about the older cars being more aerodynamically sound than the COT)." So what the hell are you doing supporting the COT, then?

The testing in aggregate was enough in that it told us where the COT's fundamental weakness lay - in a shoddy design. Contrary to your statement, they did test groups of cars at Atlanta and elsewhere before and during the season they started racing them - it was these tests that showed the car pushes worse in traffic than the older car. They were not underrepresented - having 20 cars in a test was not going to make them race better in dirty air.

Everyone has complained about the Talladega results because they, like all the other races with the COT and all the testing done on it, proved the car is worthless for racing.

You have this absurd notion that I regard everything as bad. I've spelled out before what positive changes need to be made to get the sport on the right track again - that's not an attitude that regards everything as bad, it is a statement that the sport is good but has gone in a bad direction.

No, Marc, I didn't shift positions about Toyota. For the umpteenth time they are successful when they can outspend the opposition and price them out of contention. They were outspent in F1.

My contention is GM, Ford, and Dodge were priced out of contention by Toyota - when Toyota came into the trucks the other brands couldn't match them spending for spending and instead cut back to what now amounts to token efforts. And if you think that isn't the case, then name for me the factory-backed GM, Ford, and Dodge teams, name for me how much factory effort they get, and compare it with Toyota.

The bottom line is Toyota would not be winning as much as it does in the Trucks if they didn't price out the other brands. That is their racing attitude and it is what they intend to bring to Winston Cup.

The reality is you're the one offbase about these things, Marc.

Monkeesfan said...

Toyota has won 25 of the last 50 Truck races.

Do you want that kind of quasi-monopoly by Toyota for Winston Cup?

MArc said...

monkeesfan - "Toyota has won 25 of the last 50 Truck races.

Do you want that kind of quasi-monopoly by Toyota for Winston Cup?


And so?

And Jack-in-the-Hat had five cars in the Chase and it was supposed to doom NASCAR to irrelevant status. Oops, what happened to that meme.

Now it's Hendrick... his time till pass also, so what. NEVER in recent history has anyone team stayed on top long.

But considering you brought up "domination"... Chevy has won 20 of the last 28 manufacturers championships.

Nary a word of complaint from you.

MeThinks your biggest problem is Toyota and nothing else.

"Marc, you didn't specify that in the post where you talked about "old template" cars - if you wanted to make that point about the 1966 Dodge you should have specified that. Don't lecture me about "eyes open," open your own eyes."

And that's a boldface lie and sadly in your diminished mental state you're probably not aware of it.

You won't get that lecture again, you will get this one:

You are a lying, two-faced crap weasel who peddles more sh*t that than a rodeo roustabout.

Anonymous said...

If you like the IRL style of racing NASCAR will be your RACE, myself I miss getting a garage pass @ Dover & Darlington back a few yrs ago, when 4 Chevys parked next to each other just didn't quite look the same, the Temp plates fit, but the createtive wonders of the builders were there for all the world to see. The tire wars Geoff Bodine was so quick & Goodyear built a real Racing Tire.
That was racing NASCAR STYLE, forever gone & I no longer travel from CT south to the races with my $1500/$2500 per weekend to watch it live, I don't even tape the races if I fall asleep anymore. The DP's that raced at the 24 hrs get some of my atention these days. I will miss NASCAR

Anonymous said...

Ok, I have read all the articles and heard lots on the radio but Humpy still says it best. I am tired of the top 35, race to get in. I do not like the new chase for the cup, what happened to consistency?

AND finally, what other sport allows the "commisioner" of that sport to own a team? If NASCAR is going to be the governing body then ISC should not be. It is conflict of interest for an organization to also govern the whole sport. If ISC wants to build a track, it gets a date. Kentucky is fighting to get one and has no success and what a nice place.

Like all other sports big money and such has ruined the playhouse. I will never be as interested in it as I once was and thank goodness for the Old School Racing tour. I have had enough of Brian France and his bunch of clowns.

Monkeesfan said...

Marc, "And so?" So this - Toyota buys its racing success. Yes, the money guys like Roush buy their success as well - I've always opposed those team owners and feel NASCAR should make their policies with the goal of killing Roush et al's ability to buy their success - make them disband teams, make them work not to supply engines to other teams but to help those other teams be able to build their own engines.

"Never has any team stayed up top too long." Hendrick has won at least eight races in a season ten times from 1995 onward.

"Chevy has won 20 of the last 28 manufacturer titles." We know - speaking out against NASCAR's rules bias toward Chevrolet has been a perennial by the fanbase.

Exactly how does this absolve Toyota? They don't belong in this sport. What can't you accept about that fact?

"Nary a word of complaint from you." You don't read well, do you?

I don't lie to people, Marc, so don't lecture me about anything. Only a two-faced fraud like yourself calls someone else a two-faced fraud to dodge responsibility.

This is why you have no credibility, because you're not an honest analyst, just a Brian France hack.

MArc said...

Anon - "AND finally, what other sport allows the "commisioner" of that sport to own a team? If NASCAR is going to be the governing body then ISC should not be."

Better check who owns the Milwaukee Brewers AND is the commissioner of baseball "Mr. Anon."

Your relation to reality is about as tenuous as that held by monkeesturdfan.

MArc said...

monkeesTURDfan - "Exactly how does this absolve Toyota? They don't belong in this sport. What can't you accept about that fact?"

Four words: "Run What You Brung!"

Be gone with you, I'm fresh out of troll food.

Monkeesfan said...

Run what you brung is not an option - it died out as an option when racing began.

BTW, since you mention Bud Selig - he should have been railroaded out of the commissioner's office years ago - no commissioner should be a direct participant in the game; he should be an objective overlord who puts the good of the game above marketing the brand or anything else.

Be gone yourself.

Anonymous said...

NUMBER 24 FAN
I SAY FOR GET THE CHASE . LET RACING BE RACING . FORGET THE TOP 35 LET THEM RACE IN . COME ON PEOPLE YOU HAVE CHEATED JEFF GORDON OUT OF TWO OR MAYBE THREE RACES ALL READY . LET THEM RUN TO THE END WHO END UP WITH THE POINTS THEY WIN . FORGET THIS TOP 35 LET THEM ALL RACE THEIR WAY IN . THAT IS SOME OF THE WAY YOU CAN GET YOUR FANS BACK THIS HERE WHAT YOU HAVE ISN'T RACING . ITS BORING . WHO WANT TO WATCH A CAR JUST GO AROUND A TRACK . COME ON PEOPLE LETS RACE . LETS GO BOOGIE BOOGIE .

Anonymous said...

GET RID OF THE CHASE PERIOD!!!! IT IS BORING!!!!

Anonymous said...

As a lifelong fan from Greenville SC, it seems NASCAR has become "ashamed" of its core
"redneck" fans. Fine I haven't watched or went to a race in over 2years.
Y'all want the wine and cheese crowd? Enjoy them, see how faithful they are to the sport.

Monkeesfan said...

anonymous #163, you cut to the heart of what is wrong with Brian France - he's an LA-bred snob who doesn't understand racing, is all about pushing the brand instead of actually leading the sport, and clearly sees ordinary people as beneath him and wants to appeal to the "cool" crowd.

No one like that is qualified to lead any sport.

Anonymous said...

NASACR treats tradition like it is a bad thing
Is Poole a tradition or or the payroll of the france's so they can appear good and all the dumb southern rednecks can just appear backwards
Remember, Poole, the stands used to be full
almost as full as your belly
now the crowds would put even you on a diet
And by the way I work with NASCAR teams and they are as frustrated as us "dumb rednecks"

whitezr2 said...

Back to basics means that is sold my Daytona 500 4 day tickets and will watch on TV. $1320.00 for 2 tickets for 4 days racing. $330.00 each for Petty Tower tickets, forget it. Motel rooms three times normal rates. Parking across the street from the track on Sunday$60.00 last year. Not to mention gas prices and a nine hour drive. I enjoy the party of being at the race, but not this year.

Rolgai said...

I'd like to see some news media people write about the joke NASCAR has become, without the fear that they might loose their NASCAR Press Pass.

Theres nothing more exciting than watching a 43 car field of IROC car go round and round. Or, lets give him a lap back, not that ist's NASCAR's fault he's a lap down, but he's a nice guy.

And the top 35 rule. We're stuck with it. So why not have a lottery system for those not in the top 35 each week. The 8 lucky winners get to go race and the rest can stay home and save money.

For me this year, save the yard work for Sunday. It's off to the real racing that is left in this country. Watch guys really quailify, drive like hell during the race and come come Sept. or Oct. see who really wins that Championship, with out the help of NASCAR welfare.

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