tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post3759136377172746112..comments2024-01-11T19:29:38.859-05:00Comments on Life in the Turn Lane: Rulings raise new questions about commission's roleUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-80115484361095210952008-03-12T18:53:00.000-04:002008-03-12T18:53:00.000-04:00Toyphd: No, the difference in the indents would no...Toyphd: No, the difference in the indents would not have been obvious because the indents on the current approved nose don't match the Charger decals either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-26622714213391500532008-03-08T23:27:00.000-05:002008-03-08T23:27:00.000-05:00For thoes of you who havent had the chance to read...For thoes of you who havent had the chance to read Dave Moodys blog on Robbie Gordon...<BR/><BR/>http://www.sirius-speedway.com/<BR/><BR/>"I have no doubt that Robby Gordon Motorsports did not intentionally mount an unapproved nose on their car at Daytona. An honest mistake by Dodge –sending the offending part instead of the appropriate, NASCAR-approved nose – was compounded by team members who installed it without noticing the difference. It could happen to anyone, especially someone in a rush to complete a full-bore manufacturer swap in just four days.<BR/><BR/>Like they adage says, haste makes waste.<BR/><BR/>No matter what, though, Gordon’s Jim Beam Dodge was not correct when presented for pre-qualifying inspection at Daytona. And someone has to be held accountable for that fact. <BR/><BR/>NASCAR handled the situation exactly has they have in the past, docking Gordon’s team 100 driver and owner points, and suspending crewchief Frank Kerr for six races. They declined to consider intent -- just as they have in every other case of this type over the last two years – displaying the kind of consistency fans say they want from their sanctioning body. <BR/><BR/>Gordon also did all the right things, pleading his case with a perfect mix of apology and indignance. Dodge Motorsports took full blame for the screw-up, tossing around “mea culpas” like rose petals at a high-society wedding. Sponsor Jim Beam mounted an effective public relations campaign on Gordon’s behalf, allowing him to arrive at yesterday’s hearing with armloads of petitions from NASCAR fans pleading for leniency. In the end, the National Stock Car Racing Commission sided with Gordon, eliminating the driver and owner points penalties, and reinstating crewchief Kerr.<BR/><BR/>The commission may have done the right thing for Robby Gordon and his team. They have not, however, done right by the sport as a whole.<BR/><BR/>In the aftermath of yesterday’s ruling, no driver, crewchief or team can ever again be held accountable for illegal or unapproved parts found on their racecar. Effective immediately, “I didn’t mean to” has become an acceptable excuse for any rules-related transgression. <BR/><BR/>A clear precedent has been sent, and it can never be undone. <BR/><BR/>Carl Edwards’ Roush-Fenway team now has a guaranteed excuse for that loose oil reservoir tank cover at Las Vegas Motor Speedway. All they have to say is, “We didn’t mean to.” <BR/><BR/>Any driver who speeds on pit road can now invoke the “Whoopsy Daisy Defense,” blaming a minor manufacturer’s flaw in their tachometer for an inaccurate reading. <BR/><BR/>Illegal engine parts can now be explained away simply by saying, “It came that way from the manufacturer.”<BR/><BR/>Beginning today, teams are no longer responsible for the parts and pieces bolted onto their cars. The National Stock Car Racing Commission has seen to that."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-16522419821884348992008-03-08T23:17:00.000-05:002008-03-08T23:17:00.000-05:00Diane...I'm glad you feel that way, sadly though t...Diane...<BR/><BR/>I'm glad you feel that way, sadly though there are plenty of those out there that are willing to look the other way when it comes to RG, but if it were JG or JJ, they would be calling for a lifetime ban...<BR/><BR/>By the way, RG was not vindicated. It was still the wrong, unapproved part; RG admitted it and the commission admitted it. All they did was change the penalty in such a way that RG would not lose his points or crew chief, they also levied the BIGGEST FINE IN NASCAR HISTORY. He was found guilty folks, regardless of the cause. <BR/><BR/>The problem is, with all the smoke and mirrors, the most important point has gone ignored - he presented an illegal car at inspection. Period. NASCAR rules have been very clear that the crew chief is responsible to present a legal car, and that wasn’t the case. They penalize crew chiefs that present illegal cars, and that is what they did. Further, it was a COT violation, and they gave the standard penalty. <BR/><BR/>Be happy for RG if you want, but the damage that has been done to the sport because of this precedent is greater than anything else that could have possibly happened.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-47161583618393323962008-03-08T16:21:00.000-05:002008-03-08T16:21:00.000-05:00Uh, Kurt, where did I mention David Poole in my po...Uh, Kurt, where did I mention David Poole in my post here? All I said was that it sounds like Roush found a new way to cheat via ground effects.Monkeesfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14522953722006761283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-2045180330728742702008-03-07T23:42:00.000-05:002008-03-07T23:42:00.000-05:00I didn't miss a damn thing.You claim the Steve How...I didn't miss a damn thing.<BR/><BR/>You claim the Steve Howe case is "flawed." How so, the man was suspended seven times for drug use. There is no doubt he pitched at times while under the influence and the reason he was suspended for life. (later rescinded by the nuts in charge)<BR/><BR/>In Bonds case the proof is contained in the Grand Jury testimony. And everyone and his step-brother knew a good portion of both leagues players were juicing up, they just sat in their collective asses and did nothing.<BR/><BR/>Can you definitively say Pete Rose didn't manipulate any games he managed while betting on the same games?<BR/><BR/>Tell you what, you lay out the proof of what games Rose threw and we'll counter.<BR/><BR/>We all BELIEVE Bonds juiced, but it's not proven. It's just Grand Jury testimony. That's not enough, sorry.<BR/><BR/>Steve Howe was a bit middle reliever. I would consider his contribution fairly meaningless. But perhaps that's your best point.<BR/><BR/>But how about not being dismissive to anyone who disagrees with you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-60568271036718078342008-03-07T14:57:00.000-05:002008-03-07T14:57:00.000-05:00MonkeefanYou must have hit your head or smoke crac...Monkeefan<BR/><BR/>You must have hit your head or smoke cracked... David is the one who is NON biased to NASCAR? BS><BR/><BR/>I sit in here today in the damn raina nd read the thing you spewed.. To Laugh, so thank you..<BR/><BR/><BR/>Poole is so far up NASCAR period it is pathetic.. Too damn funny..thanks for this laugh when I have to sit in the rain, and BS here..<BR/><BR/>You are a trip..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-62240677863270204742008-03-06T22:06:00.000-05:002008-03-06T22:06:00.000-05:00Marc, There are some pics on infield parking. You ...Marc, There are some pics on infield parking. You might want to look if you haven't already seen them. Those are the onlyonesI have found so far.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-47818322135864814362008-03-06T21:25:00.000-05:002008-03-06T21:25:00.000-05:00Thank goodness grand jury testimony isn't proof ye...Thank goodness grand jury testimony isn't proof yet - otherwise the Duke lacrosse players would not be free.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-61072355218223781952008-03-06T20:37:00.000-05:002008-03-06T20:37:00.000-05:00paul b - "I believe you missed the point of the qu...paul b - <I>"I believe you missed the point of the question that Anon had asked.<BR/><BR/>These drug examples you use are flawed. As much as we all believe that McGwire and Bonds are dirty, there is no proof that either used.<BR/><BR/>And you're talking about things found long after any championships were awarded."</I><BR/><BR/>I didn't miss a damn thing.<BR/><BR/>You claim the Steve Howe case is "flawed." How so, the man was suspended seven times for drug use. There is no doubt he pitched at times while under the influence and the reason he was suspended for life. (later rescinded by the nuts in charge)<BR/><BR/>In Bonds case the proof is contained in the Grand Jury testimony. And everyone and his step-brother knew a good portion of both leagues players were juicing up, they just sat in their collective asses and did nothing.<BR/><BR/>Can you definitively say Pete Rose didn't manipulate any games he managed while betting on the same games?<BR/><BR/>And yes I will quickly dismiss any and all factless and misguided notes posted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-69127739504509944042008-03-06T20:24:00.000-05:002008-03-06T20:24:00.000-05:00monkeesfan - "Sounds like Roush found a new way to...monkeesfan - <I>"Sounds like Roush found a new way to cheat via ground effects."</I><BR/><BR/>sounds more like five NNS teams found out first.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-31204204907987482482008-03-06T18:50:00.000-05:002008-03-06T18:50:00.000-05:00DAVID- Not sure where else to post this. I really ...DAVID- Not sure where else to post this. I really did enjoy your "Cost isn't a valid excuse" piece on THATSRACIN. A well thought out, well written, spot-on article. Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-10362983345294308262008-03-06T18:17:00.000-05:002008-03-06T18:17:00.000-05:00Ryan Gray - Do something productive for the entire...Ryan Gray - Do something productive for the entire human race and cease or stop reproducing.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Ed - David is right on with Robbie...Robbie admits the part was unapproved, competitive advantage has nothing to do with it.<BR/><BR/>David is one of the few that covers the beat that doesn't bow down to NASCAR...he uses stuff called, um, FACTS...and his BRAIN.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>RobAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-70029841435769655112008-03-06T18:15:00.000-05:002008-03-06T18:15:00.000-05:00Sounds like Roush found a new way to cheat via gro...Sounds like Roush found a new way to cheat via ground effects.Monkeesfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14522953722006761283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-16841725718785916842008-03-06T17:33:00.000-05:002008-03-06T17:33:00.000-05:00Marc,I believe you missed the point of the questio...Marc,<BR/><BR/>I believe you missed the point of the question that Anon had asked. <BR/><BR/>These drug examples you use are flawed. As much as we all believe that McGwire and Bonds are dirty, there is no proof that either used.<BR/><BR/>And you're talking about things found long after any championships were awarded.<BR/><BR/>But Edwards post-race inspection found the issue immediately and if the win was to be taken away it could have been easily done.<BR/><BR/>I hope no one's naive enough to think that professional sports are cheating-free. But regardless, why should it be ignored if it's found?<BR/><BR/>How about not being so quick to dismiss someone else's opinion, anon or not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-36537764426337183382008-03-06T17:13:00.000-05:002008-03-06T17:13:00.000-05:00To all the yahoos who say, "it isn't cheating unle...To all the yahoos who say, "it isn't cheating unless it's used on the track," so if NASCAR didnt catch his bad front nose before he got in the race (which is what inspection is for), then they should have waited to punish him after he used it in the race (because clearly it was illegal). Please tell me the difference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-13456429957468394102008-03-06T16:30:00.000-05:002008-03-06T16:30:00.000-05:00Anon - "Can someone name any sport where a competi...Anon - <I>"Can someone name any sport where a competitor caught cheating is still allowed to keep the win and the trophy ?"</I><BR/><BR/>If I had made that statement I'd Id myself as "anon" also.<BR/><BR/>1. Any and all NY Yankee wins and or championship were relief pitchter Steve Howe competed in. Hown failed 6-8 drug rests yet his recod and the Yankees still stands.<BR/><BR/>2. Last I heard Mark McQuires 70 homeruns is still the record to beat.<BR/><BR/>3. Barry "Overstuffed" Bonds now holds the career HR record.<BR/><BR/>Need more "anon," there are dozens of them.<BR/><BR/>One other thing, do you actually think before you write?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-29544755511689843122008-03-06T15:32:00.000-05:002008-03-06T15:32:00.000-05:00Has the 24, 48 or any other team been given the wr...Has the 24, 48 or any other team been given the wrong unapproved part that is listed in the book with the same part number by the warehouse and had both the sponsor and the manufacturer step up in support of the team? With the manufacturer admitting error on their part for this getting through to the team? I think what you have presented with these teams was created within the team circle, what happened with Robby's team was a wider spread of errors. There is a difference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-52876986914257994102008-03-06T15:27:00.000-05:002008-03-06T15:27:00.000-05:00nh_nascarfan,Sorry to disappoint you. I admit I v...nh_nascarfan,<BR/><BR/>Sorry to disappoint you. I admit I very much dislike HMS. But if they were penalized for the same thing Robby was, I would still think it was unfair and I would say so.<BR/><BR/>I also don't like it when people bring David's appearance into the conversation. It's fine to disagree with what he says. But we shouldn't get personal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-44837881120974196932008-03-06T14:54:00.000-05:002008-03-06T14:54:00.000-05:00So now here is the problem... Pandora’s Box has no...So now here is the problem... Pandora’s Box has now been opened.<BR/><BR/>(1) Whenever NASCAR issues a penalty, fans are up in arms about it stating NASCAR is inconsistent. For the first time, they have tried to be consistent and they have been chastised. NASCAR stated clearly that ANY changing of the body of the COT (not a Nationwide or a Truck - yet) will result in the same penalty. That’s now no longer true, because one need only claim 'clerical error' to cover their tracks, one might even be able to get a bunch of people to back up said clerical error and even create evidence to back their story up, such as packing slips, memos, etc. Policing the sport has now become much harder. <BR/><BR/>(2)Intent doesn’t matter, if you look at every penalty in the history of the sport NOBODY intended to do it, ever! Now, everyone took sympathy with 'poor old Robbie Gordon' because 'NASCAR doesn’t like him' and it was an 'honest' mistake. Just like the 48, 24, and 8 teams last year (the 24 & 48 thought the modifications were within the rules and the 8 also 'accidentally' put on the wrong part). Of course, now intent does indeed matter, as proven by the commissions rulings as well as NASCARS own ruling with the Carl Edwards pit road incident Sunday (so much for consistency).<BR/><BR/>Let’s be clear about one thing though... NASCAR is just as much to blame by their long history of arbitrary discipline; sadly any attempt to correct the problems of the past by finally becoming consistent has been blown out of the water by the commission. <BR/>Remember how angry you are about the RG case the next time you feel that they are being inconsistent in handing out a penalty.<BR/><BR/>Also, can everyone please knock off the attacks on David Poole? I know he doesn’t need me to defend him, however it seems to me that every time he writes something that some people disagree with, they jump all over him for his weight, being a NASCAR apologist, etc. You people need to get a life, just as people slam myself and Marc for 'not allowing people to have an opinion (not true, of course), you slam us personally as well as David for writing something you disagree with.<BR/><BR/>Just because you agree with NASCAR doesn’t mean you hate Robbie Gordon. It just means that you are concerned with the levels of consistency when t comes to discipline and penalties in NASCAR, which is one of the biggest gripes on this blog – be it Robbie or anyone else.<BR/><BR/>Food for thought that nobody has yet to answer to – if the exact same thing happened to the 24 or 48, how many of you would change your tune? I have asked now 4 times in this and a previous thread, and nobody has answered. Perhaps the silence is my answer…Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-66929772790436826772008-03-06T14:33:00.000-05:002008-03-06T14:33:00.000-05:00http://api.ning.com/files/gnFAPHOrCTJS4thA-ybGinDi...http://api.ning.com/files/gnFAPHOrCTJS4thA-ybGinDijG5mSf6ltXRvcCa522I_/nascarrulebook1.jpg?width=500<BR/>InterestingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-58391099417604282622008-03-06T14:22:00.000-05:002008-03-06T14:22:00.000-05:00Toy, Jeff Hammond did a sement showing the two nos...Toy, Jeff Hammond did a sement showing the two nose caps in question. The indentation had no impact on how the decal fit. I can understand how you missed it, with all the other useless info and dribble they have during the prerace showAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-79014244835442838892008-03-06T14:15:00.000-05:002008-03-06T14:15:00.000-05:00I have a question that I did not see addressed in ...I have a question that I did not see addressed in the thousands of commentaries on the Robby Gordon violation.<BR/><BR/>Robby Gordon said the only difference between the two front ends is the new one has different decal indentations thus there was no aerodynamic advantage. If that is the case, then when they tried to apply the old decal stickers to the new indentations, shouldn't that have made it obvious that something was wrong?<BR/><BR/>Further. No one in the media is really interested in settling the discussion factually. If they were, then one of the verbose panel of pundits during the 12 hours of prerace coverage would have shown the two front ends side by side to prove to fans whether this was an honest mistake or intentional.<BR/><BR/>But hey, this is NACSAR, why let the facts get in the way of a good story.TOYPHDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00293959933287197261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-55485259305679918172008-03-06T13:13:00.000-05:002008-03-06T13:13:00.000-05:00Mr. Poole..just wondering..if you think the commis...Mr. Poole..just wondering..if you think the commission was unjust and over the line in reversing PART of Gordon's penalties..what do you think they are there for? If I am understanding what you have written they are only there as "figureheads"..and not to go over the facts as presented and make what they feel is a just call. This week was quite unusual as they reversed the Wallace penalties and now part of Gordon's. BUT..I am sure they are alittle more in the know of the rules and situations then you are...and with the way NA$CAR is with their rulings..up and down...it seems to me the commission is as close to being correct in reversing the penalties as NA$CAR was in actually granting the penalties to begin with....Hey..who's to say...it depends on who is NA$CAR is wearing their glasses as to how they rule on an infraction on a given day...At least the commission has had a few days and more facts to go on....and maybe all of them are wearing their glasses on the day of the hearings!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-75451154067104593702008-03-06T11:58:00.000-05:002008-03-06T11:58:00.000-05:00David, I expect fans to be biased, & I guess they ...David, I expect fans to be biased, & I guess they have a right to be. After all, we're the ones paying for this gigantic money machine, called NA$CAR.<BR/> I do expect the writers who feed off the sport to be even handed. In this area you sir, are a miserable failure!!<BR/><BR/>dawgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-27216577547407361432008-03-06T11:44:00.000-05:002008-03-06T11:44:00.000-05:00And by the way, I noticed that Dave Rodman wrote a...And by the way, I noticed that Dave Rodman wrote an entire article on the fact that eliminating the previous sponsors such as Busch, Winston, Nextel, was a diservice to the history of the sport.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com