tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post1001881110966701114..comments2024-01-11T19:29:38.859-05:00Comments on Life in the Turn Lane: Where the rubber meets the roadUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-34937062249402228962008-03-17T23:55:00.000-04:002008-03-17T23:55:00.000-04:00nh nascar - no story then or later ever mentioned ...nh nascar - no story then or later ever mentioned cut tires; indeed, Shaun Assael notes in <EM>Wide Open: Days And Nights On The NASCAR Tour</EM> the role of driver error in those wrecks. They lost control, period, which wasn't that hard to do given how little downforce those cars had (am I the only one here who remembers the epidemic of air-off-the-spoiler wrecks at that time?) and how windy it was that particular weekend.<BR/><BR/>Hoosier was priced out because NASCAR quite deliberately made it too expensive for them. NASCAR should not have done that because it cut off an important revenue and engineering stream for raceteams. <BR/><BR/>The fact remains that tiure wars mean more teams get greater reveneu and engineering streams which translates into more winners and more competition. It was the case in 1988's dramatic rise in first-time winners and comeback winners, and it was the case in 1994's breakage of a two-year-old drougt of first-time winners.<BR/><BR/>The safety argument is bogus, shown as such by realworld history.Monkeesfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14522953722006761283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-61093931911584901322008-03-17T22:26:00.000-04:002008-03-17T22:26:00.000-04:00Look a little closer... cut tires were the cause o...Look a little closer... cut tires were the cause of the loss of control. And of course they lost control, as most cars do when the cut a tire. In fact, when a car at high speed suddenly veers off course and hits a wall, its almost always a cut tire. Not that hard and easy enough to find if you actually look.<BR/><BR/>Yes, Hoosier was priced out, but if you are going to compete with the big boys, you need to be economically able to compete by the rules and that means being able to supply tires for every team if that's what needed to happen. How is it in one sentence you write about 'additional funding', and next write they were priced out? In other words, they couldn't afford it... <BR/><BR/>http://jetdryer.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-55700435026006892002008-03-17T13:02:00.000-04:002008-03-17T13:02:00.000-04:00nh nascarfan, DO SOME ACTUAL RESEARCH for a change...nh nascarfan, DO SOME ACTUAL RESEARCH for a change (you pompously lecture me about that at your blog; follow your own damned advice). I remember that Speedweeks quite vividly; it was unusually windy those two days (there were several driver interviews that commented on it at the time), and tire failures were not responsible because they didn't happen in the Bonnett and Orr crashes - "Orr lost control in the second turn" is how every story about his death read (and yes, I went back to re-read stories about those two wrecks); none ever cited tire failure. So you're wrong there.<BR/><BR/>"Hoosier dropped out for economic reasons." NASCAR priced them out; the revenue they brought to the sport was team-specific; they allowed more teams to test more and thus become better faster than Goodyear's monopoly has ever allowed. <BR/><BR/>You're 0-for-the-argument, Mark - there is no case against a tire war. Goodyear's monopoly has never been safer than a tire war. Period, end of discussion.Monkeesfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14522953722006761283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-86384434962139847122008-03-17T09:44:00.000-04:002008-03-17T09:44:00.000-04:00The wind? The wind is the best lame excuse you can...The wind? The wind is the best lame excuse you can come up with for two fatal accident? At least try to come up with something that at can make me ponder for more than a millisecond that you might have made a reasonable point. Yes, I know, anything but the tires, as that would rebut your inane thought process on this discussion.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps you should research this a bit more before you type; all 3 accidents were due to high speed tire failures. Additionally, Hoosier dropped out for economic reasons, NASCAR required that both companies bring enough tires for to supply each team with enough tires for each race, whether they chose to use them or not... as a result, both companies had to make hundreds more tires that would actually be needed, and Hoosier being so much smaller (I believe I heard they had only 18 full time employees), had no choice but to pull out. That does, of course, shoot holes in your 'added revenue stream' theory as well. <BR/><BR/>The tire war of 94 was a financial bust for both manufacturers, bear in mind that these companies are looking to be able to sell tires by being the 'official tire of NASCAR,' that alone is what makes a financial losing venture worth sticking around in NASCAR. <BR/><BR/>http://jetdryer.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-90892299277384312032008-03-16T00:11:00.000-04:002008-03-16T00:11:00.000-04:00nh nascarfan, I can cite the big picture to advoca...nh nascarfan, I can cite the big picture to advocate a tire war. Tire competition means more teams get more revenue and engineering streasm and the result is more winners. You constantly exaggerate the danger level during tire wars and ignore that it was never any different from Goodyear monopoly seasons - the whole controversy over Vegas and Atlanta right now is proof that the Goodyear monopoly isn't any better than a tire war. <BR/><BR/>And I cannot remember anyone citing tire failure in the Bonnett and Orr crashes - those cars broke loose on a couple of unusually windy days; the accusation against Hoosier came later that week when they were accused of having tires that made the cars looser. They quit Speedweeks after the 125s not because of safety; my understanding is the tires made their cars handle so poorly they were unraceable (which isn't consistent with the whole "soft tire" mantra). By the Atlanta 500 a month later Hoosier was starting to get its act together.<BR/><BR/>You keep exaggerating the "increased risk" when it was not there before or later. The risk now is the same as it was in 1994 as far as tire reliability goes. <BR/><BR/>"Show some gratitude." I only show gratitude when someone earns it - when someone disingenuously whines about "safety" to advocate policies that wussify the sport, they deserve contempt. <BR/><BR/>The sport needs tire competition, because it needs tires that don't have to be changed and keeps the cars stuck to the racetrack, and it needs additional revenue and engineering streams to more teams for more winners; a Goodyear monopoly provides neither. They have shown they can't do it; make them have to race Firestone and Hoosier and thus be forced to get it right.Monkeesfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14522953722006761283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-33478516230488279322008-03-15T22:21:00.000-04:002008-03-15T22:21:00.000-04:00Richard, lost in all of this calling for a tire wa...Richard, lost in all of this calling for a tire war by the truly insane is exactly that point. <BR/><BR/>Goodyear can - and must - do a better job, and if they cant/wont, then there are other companies more than willing to give it a shot.<BR/><BR/>http://jetdryer.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-88205370488989301502008-03-15T21:04:00.000-04:002008-03-15T21:04:00.000-04:00I believe Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, Dale Jarrett,...I believe Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, Dale Jarrett, Dale, Jr., and others are saying that Goodyear should be able to build a safe tire that is also competitive without Goodyear's going overboard like the overly-hard tire they brought to Atlanta. It is experienced drivers that are saying Goodyear dropped the ball.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-41633130099503574602008-03-15T16:57:00.000-04:002008-03-15T16:57:00.000-04:00Monkeesfan, can you cite one person within NASCAR ...Monkeesfan, can you cite one person within NASCAR - owner, crew chief, or driver, who wants a tire war? Can you cite one person within NASCAR who will dispute that tire failures at high speed were the cause of the 1994 tragedies?<BR/><BR/>You may not believe it did - and that is your right - but your belief isn’t necessarily fact. And who wants to run the risk of deaths or serious injuries in the name of your perceived increased revenue and engineering?<BR/><BR/>I am still amazed at your callous attitude about driver safety when it comes to tires and the new car. <BR/><BR/>Remember, they are the ones who place their lives at risk each lap of each weekend for your entertainment. Show some gratitude and start showing some concern for these guys. <BR/><BR/>http://jetdryer.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-74843558766234179972008-03-15T16:45:00.000-04:002008-03-15T16:45:00.000-04:00nh nascarfan, driver safety is "not a priority" be...nh nascarfan, driver safety is "not a priority" because it isn't being compromised anywhere. "If the drivers don't want a tire war, why would you?" Because is means more revenue and engineering streams for more teams and it also means tires that don't have to be changed, allowing drivers to run 500 mile races on far fewer tires than they use in the Goodyear monopoly. That is more important than driver reluctance for a tire war. <BR/><BR/>You cite driver deaths in tire competition years, but not in Goodyear monpoly years - oh that's right, because to do so discredits your opposition to tire competition. You're the one trying to rewrite history, Mark, so you're the one without credibility here.Monkeesfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14522953722006761283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-9511869888211431902008-03-15T10:57:00.000-04:002008-03-15T10:57:00.000-04:00The truth about the 1994 tire war in which two dri...The truth about the 1994 tire war in which two drivers (Neil Bonnett and Rodney Orr) lost their lives in tire failure related crashes and Ernie Irvan was seriously injured in a tire failure related crash:<BR/><BR/>Brett Bodine: ``I'm certainly glad it's over. Everybody is going to be out there on equal tires. It's just better to let the race teams decide who's going to win the race, not the tire companies.''<BR/><BR/>Steve Hmiel, Mark Martin's crew chief, after the 1994 war ended: ``Goodyear has come up with a good, safe tire. I think it will race real good with no concern over somebody getting hurt because of the tires. Last year, sometimes it felt like it got unsafe.''<BR/><BR/>Rick Mast, winner of the 1994 Brickyard 400, on the pullout of Hoosier after winning with that company (on Hoosiers): ``It tickles the dickens out of me. It's the best thing that could have happened. It put everybody in a bad spot. When tire companies are in competition, to go faster, your tire's gotta be softer, and softer tires are just not as safe. They're more apt to come apart.'' <BR/><BR/>Jack Rousch: "We will wreck more cars because of this tire war, and people could get hurt because of it” <BR/><BR/>Junior Johnson: "The biggest thing I see it doing is raising the cost of racing. They're fighting a war and we're paying for it."<BR/><BR/>Two dead drivers, one critically injured, and a multitude of tire failures. You want to change Goodyear? Ok, but lets not settle THAT war on the track. There are actual real lives at stake.<BR/><BR/>http://jetdryer.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-24304127319392297332008-03-14T22:49:00.000-04:002008-03-14T22:49:00.000-04:00Sorry, Monkeesfan, the Kool Aid you drink is just ...Sorry, Monkeesfan, the Kool Aid you drink is just too much to take. Safety is the number one priority, and if no credible member of NASCAR, specifically the drivers who would most be effected by a tire war, don't want one, why would you?<BR/><BR/>In reading the your drunken postings, you never make driver safety a priority, therefore you have no real credibility whatsoever. <BR/><BR/>http://jetdryer.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-16949705861256614412008-03-14T18:40:00.000-04:002008-03-14T18:40:00.000-04:00It seems to me that the media has made too much of...It seems to me that the media has made too much of the way Tony made his comments - and too little of the truth of what he said and the fact that 2 other past champions and 3 other top 5 finishers at Atlanta agreed with the substance of his position.<BR/><BR/>At some point tires that are unnecessarily hard also create safety risks - possibly not as much as a too soft tire. I have not seen any articles where drivers who wrecked at Atlanta were interviewed to see whether the hard tires caused the wreck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-43294728257744080662008-03-14T14:28:00.000-04:002008-03-14T14:28:00.000-04:00Good Lord David, you need to stop watching racin a...Good Lord David, you need to stop watching racin and get on a treadmill.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-8852479442047035432008-03-14T00:49:00.000-04:002008-03-14T00:49:00.000-04:00nh nascarfan, I'm understating the issue of driver...nh nascarfan, I'm understating the issue of driver safety because it's not as big as you think it is. History is the credible evidence that covers my statements because it is history that shows that tire wars are good for the sport. <BR/><BR/>"Drivers don't want a tire war." So what? They can't cite any superior safety with Goodyear's monopoly because history disproves that argument. There should be no rebidding - make them race each other on the track.<BR/><BR/>The COT has a bearing on this because it is a design that cannot work. "A different design is needed for the new car." Actually what is needed is to go back to the old car (long nose, flush airdam, chopped roofline), go back to a 7.5-inch spoiler and low airdam, and bolt on a roof rail for drag. A new car was never needed to begin with.<BR/><BR/>And before you rip <A HREF="http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/MD80891" REL="nofollow">MD80891</A>, why don't you read some of his pieces first?Monkeesfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14522953722006761283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-88019853711429793662008-03-13T22:23:00.000-04:002008-03-13T22:23:00.000-04:00Monkeesfan: 'One of the most perceptive analysts o...Monkeesfan: 'One of the most perceptive analysts of the sport right now is a blogger known as MD80891 - check his responses in the response section of this Reid Spencer analysis of the tire issue at Atlanta.'<BR/><BR/>Oh, I get it... he sips from the same 'COT & Brian France are to blame for everything' kool aid as you do!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-84846476320439399002008-03-13T21:00:00.000-04:002008-03-13T21:00:00.000-04:00Monkeesfan, you continue to understate the issue o...Monkeesfan, you continue to understate the issue of safety for the drivers and have absolutely no credible evidence to cover your statements. Your arguments are fundamentally flawed from the get go, and every driver knows it. Funny how, even with the current feelings towards Goodyear, none of the guys who strap themselves into a racecar and travel at 180 mph for your enjoyment want a tire war.<BR/> <BR/>Settle this off the track, where a drivers life isn't at stake. I agree with what Kim said on every point, especially the part about rebidding the contract every 6 or so years. <BR/> <BR/>Yes, the COT does indeed have bearing on this; any time you make a huge change to the car you are using - changing weights, frames, handling, downforce, etc, you can expect that the old tire data will no longer be of much use. Dale Jarrett is correct that a different design is needed for the new car, using old design on new equipment is a fundamental flaw.<BR/> <BR/>http://jetdryer.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-74911707335669015172008-03-13T18:30:00.000-04:002008-03-13T18:30:00.000-04:00Darn it - this didn't come out right the first tim...<EM>Darn it - this didn't come out right the first time -</EM> <BR/><BR/>One of the most perceptive analysts of the sport right now is a blogger known as MD80891 - check his responses <A HREF="http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=378495" REL="nofollow">in the response section of this Reid Spencer analysis of the tire issue at Atlanta.</A>Monkeesfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14522953722006761283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-3136117670433442622008-03-13T18:27:00.000-04:002008-03-13T18:27:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Monkeesfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14522953722006761283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-43438383979008280182008-03-13T14:56:00.000-04:002008-03-13T14:56:00.000-04:00The drivers have no say in what Nascar decides and...The drivers have no say in what Nascar decides and Goodyear has a contract for 4 more years, but the general public and all Nascar fans can boycott Goodyear and buy other tires and products. Nascar fans out number most other sports fans and especially in loyalty. A Nascar fan for 50 years. Chevy lady in Georgia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-81355445127040595222008-03-13T13:07:00.000-04:002008-03-13T13:07:00.000-04:00I think Dale Jarrett hit the nail on the head yest...I think Dale Jarrett hit the nail on the head yesterday. You can not use the same tire on both the cup cars and the "Busch" cars. They are two differant animals now. Kind of like your street car, what works good on a sports car is absolutely useless on an SUV. Goodyear and NASCAR need to spend the money and design a tire that will work with this new car. Keep the bean counters out of the equasion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-39874695054920771062008-03-12T18:31:00.000-04:002008-03-12T18:31:00.000-04:00David,I think this quote of you says it all..."If ...David,<BR/><BR/>I think this quote of you says it all..."If you’re one or two notches toward the “safe” side, that’s better than being one or two notches off the other way. But slamming the design all the way to the conservative end of the scale isn’t doing the job right. It’s covering your corporate backside." - David Poole.<BR/><BR/>All GYr does is cover it's ass. The sport is called "Racing." Safety is a part of it, but certainly risk is involved. If GYr can't put the racing back into a safe tire, then I'm sure there are others who can.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-83726335035597429512008-03-12T18:07:00.000-04:002008-03-12T18:07:00.000-04:00marc, those issues were not tire-war related becau...marc, those issues were not tire-war related because such problems are common, tire war or no tire war. Don't lecture me about objectivity because I use it far more than you have the capacity.<BR/><BR/>nh nascarfan, I went through the two Hoosier tire wars, and the whole safety argument is overblwon because safety was no worse than it was when Goodyear had a monopoly. Goodyear has had a monopoly for decades and all that's resulted is decades of inconsistent and downright bad tires. Bring in Firestone and Hoosier and make Goodyear have to fight them on the racetrack. <BR/><BR/>BTW, you and marc belittle the COT's role in tire issues, except reality doesn't support your cavalier refusal to see it. The car's lack of downforce has had an effect on setups and tires, and nowhere has it been positive.<BR/><BR/>okla21fan, does Mark Martin ever complain when drivers are killed during tire monopolies?<BR/><BR/>What is ultimately needed is a tire that doesn't have to be changed and keeps the cars stuck to the racetrack, and additional revenue and engineering streams for more raceteams. A Goodyear monopoly provides neither.Monkeesfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14522953722006761283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-69922186817197852912008-03-12T15:57:00.000-04:002008-03-12T15:57:00.000-04:001.Race was boring.. IMHO2.Tony,Jeff,Dale,and other...1.Race was boring.. IMHO<BR/>2.Tony,Jeff,Dale,and others can complain about ANYTHING on their car. Their driving it, NOT you or me.<BR/>3.Tire war may not be economical for the suppliers/manufacturers ( cost to produce verses total sales and ad benefits of sponsorship ).simply put it cost WAY to much for the benefits they receive.Maybe the way to go is to have and open bid/test for the different manufactures every 6 years. That would put several times the engineering energy into the tires every cycle.(the way to solving this problem is through engineering )<BR/>4.Increase the tire footprint 10%<BR/>5.Nascar needs to "define " in a scientific provable fashion what grip requirements it demands as a minimum.( it does for every other component on the car).<BR/>6.Test Test Test.onelaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01069952313189369725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-73844704501540475152008-03-12T14:17:00.000-04:002008-03-12T14:17:00.000-04:00David,You're absolutely right that Goodyear went t...David,<BR/><BR/>You're absolutely right that Goodyear went to the extreme safe side. Tony was sent to the hospital twice the week before because of Goodyear. He had a right to be upset. Tony sounded like Dale Sr. in speaking his mind.<BR/>The COT's are too much like IROC cars, give the teams the rights to proper set ups and springs.... <BR/><BR/>I love your views into my favorite sport.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24366637.post-11544927641718471932008-03-12T13:30:00.000-04:002008-03-12T13:30:00.000-04:00I'm glad Tony blew his top and that Jr and Jeff ba...I'm glad Tony blew his top and that Jr and Jeff backed him up - watching some of the drivers at Atlanta was stupid - it was like they were driving on ice. No side-by-side and borrrrrrrrrrrrring except when someone got out front. The bottom line is Good Year needs to put its money where it's mouth is and give the drivers better tires. You don't do that, you get fired. <BR/><BR/>Totally enjoyed your smart blog David. Keep their feet to the fire.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com